Power loss/hesitation only up hills while towing - Diesel Forum

Bansheechick · 06-01-2009, 02:03 PM

Please HELP!

Took my truck on it's first trip up North pulling about 10,000 lbs.
We smelled coolant after the first big hill so pulled over and could see a few drops of coolant dripping from drivers side fender wall/shock area. Could not locate where the leak was coming from. Truck was not running hot and was running great so continued on. Just before we got to our destination on the last hill the truck hestitated 3 times for a split second.

On the way home truck ran great until the hills. The hesitations/power loss got worse and worse, sometimes back to back, to the point to where it was very difficult to climb and hills. If I would back off of the gas, it would stop.

Once back down in the flats the truck runs great and completely normal and has not hesitated again, even towing.

When it losses power for that split second I can hear a sound through the exhaust that sound similar to a turbo pop off valve (but not as loud as like what I hear on a sand car)

I never saw any smoke.

I do not have the coolant smell now back here at home, even towing.

My truck has 106,000 on it and is not under warranty.

canucklehead · 06-03-2009, 05:08 AM

wow, this is very similar to my recent tow experience, except i had no issue with coolant, I didn't hear the exhaust pop, and my hesitation was very brief and only under severe load. I also run Edge Platinum with the Attitude monitor to truly monitor my temps. I'm told the dummy gauges on the dash aren't very reliable for the hills, they're not relaying true info. I was running my Edge on level 2, "Tow/Haul", and also had the tranny in the tow/haul mode.

I actaully tagged onto to somebody else's post with my similar problem (and similar to their complaint). It should be in the first 4-5 pages of posts here. Anyways, the best answer i got was somebody suggested maybe my tuner over-fueled.

I'm going to change my tranny filter soon, aswell as fuel filter (although my fuel filter doesn't have that much mileage on it).

It seems odd that a few of us have reported very similar sypmtoms. Is this normal? I was towing the steepest hills under the biggest load when I experienced what you're saying. My turbo was boosting at about 28 psi, and exhaust was around 1100 degrees. My RPM were about 2800-3000.

I hope someone can give us a clear answer.

Smiley1 · 06-03-2009, 11:03 AM

I had this issue when my turbo was overboosting. It was only while towing and the pressure would leak past the rubber couplers making a PFFFT sound along with a power loss/hesitation on hills. This overboost condition took out my headgaskets as well. I was experiencing the spewing coolant also.

Hope this helps.

canucklehead · 06-04-2009, 07:17 PM

when your turbo overboosted, did you notice where it was at on the boost gauge? I have 2 boost gauges, one on the dash and one on the display monitor from Edge.

2Tight · 06-04-2009, 10:12 PM

I'm really new to turbo diesel so bear wth me. I do have two turbo sports cars I build and tune myself. I've read about overboost problems here frequently and have to wonder. Is there no need for a wastegate or manual boost controller on diesel trucks? Is the PSD boost electronically controlled only by the MAP sensor and the flash version? Sorry for the lame question but overboost is an instant killer on any gas engine and I'm trying to figure this all out.

Smiley1 · 06-05-2009, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Tight

I'm really new to turbo diesel so bear wth me. I do have two turbo sports cars I build and tune myself. I've read about overboost problems here frequently and have to wonder. Is there no need for a wastegate or manual boost controller on diesel trucks? Is the PSD boost electronically controlled only by the MAP sensor and the flash version? Sorry for the lame question but overboost is an instant killer on any gas engine and I'm trying to figure this all out.

The turbos in these trucks have adjustable veins to make it act like a small and large turbo depending on what the computer wants. This negates the need for a blow off valve. These veins have a tendency to stick. These failures present themselves in an underboost mode which would cause a lack of power or an overboost mode that makes the truck have gobs of power. Unfortunately, the overboost condition can cause the crapy headbolts to stretch which compromise the headgaskets (this is what happened to my truck). The fix is to remove the turbo, clean it, and replace. They work great in this application but fail on occasion. Too bad Ford/International didnt forsee this and add a failsafe. My failsafe was having the dealer install ARP headstuds.

2Tight · 06-05-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smiley1

The turbos in these trucks have adjustable veins to make it act like a small and large turbo depending on what the computer wants. This negates the need for a blow off valve. These veins have a tendency to stick. These failures present themselves in an underboost mode which would cause a lack of power or an overboost mode that makes the truck have gobs of power. Unfortunately, the overboost condition can cause the crapy headbolts to stretch which compromise the headgaskets (this is what happened to my truck). The fix is to remove the turbo, clean it, and replace. They work great in this application but fail on occasion. Too bad Ford/International didnt forsee this and add a failsafe. My failsafe was having the dealer install ARP headstuds.

Thanks for the great answer and that does make sense but obviously not too smart on Fords and IHI's part. What doesn't make sense is Ford relying on just the turbo and VGT valve to control overboost rather than a wastegate. Looks like I'll be pulling the turbo and cleaning it if I plan to tow heavy this Summer. You would think with all the exhaust heat that corrosion wouldn't be an issue or Garrett could have used non-ferrous components for the critical cold side moving parts. Both of my other turbos are oil/water cooled and corrosion has never been a problem with them. Addings ARP studs isn't in the cards for me. Funny, the ARP stud set costs more for my 2.5L I-4 than for the 6.0L PSD...too bad they are such a major pain and expense to install on the Ford. I can't complain though with 139K miles and no EGR, turbo, EGR cooler, or HG issues to date...I even have the old injector 'buzz' flash version still.

Smiley1 · 06-05-2009, 04:17 PM

Your welcome.

I would not go through the trouble of removing and cleaning the turbo unless you are really bored. Your time would be better spent installing a boost gauge. That way you will know when and if it needs to be cleaned. JMHO.

2Tight · 06-05-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smiley1

Your welcome.

I would not go through the trouble of removing and cleaning the turbo unless you are really bored. Your time would be better spent installing a boost gauge. That way you will know when and if it needs to be cleaned. JMHO.

No, I'm not bored, it's just a peace of mind thing for me. A boost gauge or multi function monitor is next on my list. I would hate to have the turbo vanes hang up while towing 500 miles from home. From what I've read that seems to be a common breakdown mode for many turbo/HG failures...always at the worst time and often under heavy towing/climbing when engine temps are high. Boost gauges are a great tool; the bad thing is unless you watch them ALL the time that split second of overboost is all it takes to blow a HG and ruin your vacation.

tvandyck7 · 06-07-2009, 02:34 PM

First thing to try is unplugging the egr valve and pulling a load up a hill. If it doesn't act up wile the egr is unplugged, you need to replace the valve. Mine was doing the exact same things you described, and I unplugged the valve just to see if it would work and it did. After I did this, I could not make it shows the syptoms from before. However, I am NOT recommending that you leave it unplugged even if it fixes the problem for the reason that it is illegal to tamper with emmisions control devices. To be legal, you would need to replace the EGR valve and keep it plugged in. Unplugging it and testing it's performance is the first thing you should do before spending a ton of money trowing parts at it. Good luck!

Bansheechick · 06-14-2009, 09:27 PM

Just thought I would give you all an update. We took the truck up North this weekend, with NO trailer. I thought it would be fine since the truck runs perfect around here. WRONG. The truck ran GREAT until a loud "pop" and black smoke rolled out. Dealer said turbo was sticking and over spooled and blew out my intercooler. Quoted me $2300 to fix it. We limped the truck home and home to find a less expensive way to fix it. Black smoke is not constant, only occassionally.

Dealer told me that you can not clean the turbo on my 2004. Is this true?

**teamroper60** · 06-14-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bansheechick

Just thought I would give you all an update. We took the truck up North this weekend, with NO trailer. I thought it would be fine since the truck runs perfect around here. WRONG. The truck ran GREAT until a loud "pop" and black smoke rolled out. Dealer said turbo was sticking and over spooled and blew out my intercooler. Quoted me $2300 to fix it. We limped the truck home and home to find a less expensive way to fix it. Black smoke is not constant, only occassionally.

Dealer told me that you can not clean the turbo on my 2004. Is this true?

Seems to me that whomever you took it to thought they had a sucker on the hook and were trying to milk your cash from your pocketbook..

Your turbo is likely sticking, and that can cause an overboost condition. But considering the fact you were told the turbo cannot be cleaned (it can), I have to wonder whether you really blew the intercooler or just an intercooler boot (which could be caused by overboosting too and will make that loud pop).. I believe I would check the 4 boots on the intercooler tubes to see if one is off or has a hole/crack in it before I jumped out and bought a new intercooler....

Smiley1 · 06-15-2009, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teamroper60

Seems to me that whomever you took it to thought they had a sucker on the hook and were trying to milk your cash from your pocketbook..

Your turbo is likely sticking, and that can cause an overboost condition. But considering the fact you were told the turbo cannot be cleaned (it can), I have to wonder whether you really blew the intercooler or just an intercooler boot (which could be caused by overboosting too and will make that loud pop).. I believe I would check the 4 boots on the intercooler tubes to see if one is off or has a hole/crack in it before I jumped out and bought a new intercooler....

This is exactly right.

Bansheechick · 06-15-2009, 11:41 AM

Thanks, we will check. Money is real tight right now so if it was only a boot that would be great. Charlie said that the price they quoted was only for parts, not labor. It was a dealer in a small town. They told me that the intercooler was cracked at a seam. They also said that I needed a turbo "housing".

**teamroper60** · 06-15-2009, 12:11 PM

Don't get me wrong, it is possible you have blown a seam in the intercooler, that has happened to folks in the past but a boot blowing off or having a hole in it is a lot more common....

Saying you need a housing is saying your turbo is ruined. If that were the case, cleaning it would not fix your problem but I don't see how you could need a housing and not a center section (which you did not mention).. Nonetheless, what you said in the first post was they told you the turbo could not be cleaned and that is false..

I'm also not sure how your fins could be hitting the housing and it be overboosting.. Common sense would lead one to think that if the fins were hitting something solid like the housing (which is what would be happening for you to need a new housing), it would slow them down, creating underboost, not overboost.. You can check your turbo for shaft play (which it will have if your fins are hitting the housing). Pull off the entire air filter assembly, including the back part (you will need to remove the small hose running from the radiator to the degas bottle and unplug the MAF sensor wiring), grab the end of the turbo shaft and check it for play. A very small amount of side to side play will be there but it should not move toward or away from you.. You can also spin it by hand and listen for the fins to hit the housing..