6.0L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.
Maybe somebody can shed a little light on this for me. Truck has 48,000 miles. 12/03 build date. The only engine repair has been a new EGR. The dealer recommended not flashing it at that time, unless the problem continues.
We were about 15 miles from after a flawless, 3500 mile trip through CO, UT and WY with a 14K 5th wheel. (The T/H was amazing in the mountains!) As I slowed to stop the downshift to 1st sounded like it locked up the rear wheels. It did this once again from 3rd to 2nd and 2nd to 1st, so I turned Tow/Haul off. No more problem.
I tried it again this morning with no trailer and had the same harsh results.
I know there is a flash to soften the shift but I'm wondering if there is a known cause for the sudden change?? I'll have it checked for codes on Friday but thought it might be good to have some knowlege when I bring it in. The dealer hasn't seen this particular situation before.
Thanks for any info.
Mike
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2004 F350 4X4 CC LB XLT Sport
Black in and out
The flash worked for me on my 06. However, if you don't want to flash it, you could always try disconnecting the batteries for a bit to clear some parameters, then reconnect and see if that helps.
The problem is that the 3-2 shift is very hard to do right. The "learning" continuously tries to adjust the pressures to make the shift right. Sometimes it makes the wrong pressure adjustment, and then the shift is harsh. The infamous reflash got around this problem by disabling the 3-2 shift in tow/haul without the brake on. If the brake pedal is pressed you can still get the 3-2 in tow/haul.
There are two ways to fix this. One is to have it reflashed so that it doesn't do the shift that is harsh. The second is to disconnect both batteries, clearing what the control module "learned" about your trans. As it relearns, chances are that it will be better.
I would recommend BossTow's suggestion. If you truck has the original computer programming from Ford, then you would still have what Ford calls the "harsh" Tow/Haul programming. I'm finding it a little hard to believe that it would've locked the rear wheels up with that much weight on your truck, although I'm not saying that they didn't lock up. If you search this site, you will find that many owners who had the original (read 1st) program/flash and then had their trucks re-flashed don't really like the "softened" Tow/Haul configuration. If you could ask them, they'd probably tell you that if it's bearable, then live with it. It seems that the revised Tow/Haul configuration puts more work on the brakes, which isn't always a good thing with the amount of weight you're pulling, especially in mountainous terrain. I never had the original, so I can't comment on how bad it is, but I would love to have a better Tow/Haul setup than what I have now. If you do happen to get it re-flashed, there are aftermarket companies (namely SCT) that can write a trans-only file that gives you control of the transmission functions w/o adding any power to the engine, however you still have to be aware that you've installed an aftermarket device and could possibly be denied warranty coverage. My opinion would be to keep it, but if it's to the point to where you think it will break something, then it would probably be best to have it re-flashed. But bear in mind that if you actually have the original programming (and I don't remember what build dates received it - maybe someone could post those dates), you will also lose the true pilot injection, which will cause engine noise to increase. Good luck and keep us posted!!!!!
The batteries! I should have thought of that! I'll try it tonight to see what happens. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of an actual component in the system that is failing.
I probably shouldn't be afraid of the reflash other than it's been a great running truck for 2 1/2 years and I'd hate to possibly lose what I've got.
You're certainly right about the wheels not locking up. I guess it was the noise and jolt I got from it that made it seem so. I'll tell you I was looking in the mirrors for parts left on the road!!!
Thanks guys.
Mike
__________________
2004 F350 4X4 CC LB XLT Sport
Black in and out
One other thing to think about is if you do, in fact, still have the original programming, you could possibly see a decrease in fuel mileage. I've read and know of people that have had the original programming, as well as those that still do, and they have said that they mileage has suffered with an re-flashes.
I certainly understand about looking for parts in the mirror. If it was me, I'd be real hesitant about getting it re-flashed, but that's just MHO.
I believe that in the long run, there could be internal transmission damage, but to the extent, I couldn't say. As long as the torque converter isn't locked while the tranny is down shifting, the drivetrain should be able to use the slip in the torque converter as a "cushion". This will only work however if the transmission doesn't use some sort of sprag that will keep the tranny input shaft from turning faster than the engine, which brings up another question for the techs or any trans-knowledgeable member:
1) Is it theoretically possible for the tranny input shaft to turn faster than the engine, and
2) Does the stator prevent this, if so?
And of course, there's the gear ratio of 1st gear that is trying to work backwards when the road is trying to spin the engine faster (as when downshifting while coasting)!!!
Mine did this same thing on a trip last year to Shasta. I thought, great, my tranny is toast. I had mine reflashed with the latest, had to due to Kalifornia, and I like the newer flash. I could NOT live with the harsh 2-1 downshifts. Like you said, it just about locks the wheels up and makes everyone in the truck yell.
__________________ 2003 F250 XLT 4x4 Sport Crew Cab,
Built May '03, Bright Red, 6.0 Auto, ESOF 4x4, 3.73LS, 4.5" Edge Lift, 315/75-16 BFG KO A/T's, Polished/Clear Powder Coated Diff Covers, Weld Cheyenne 8 Wheels, Line X, Overhead DVD, Torza Tonneau Cover, 30' Fleetwood Gearbox Travel Trailer
[ QUOTE ]
1) Is it theoretically possible for the tranny input shaft to turn faster than the engine, and
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course it's possible. It happens every time you are coasting. That's how you get engine braking, the transmission is turning the engine. If the torque converter is unlocked, and other than the earliest tow/haul calibrations in the '03s, the torque converter is always unlocked when coasting, the input shaft is turning several hundred RPM faster than the engine.
I greatly miss the original transmission tow/haul programming that my Oct '03 built 2004 truck came with. Towing downhill in the mountains gave me a great sense of security. Now it is so much weaker, I am greatly disappointed. If I had to do it all over again, I would have never let them reprogram.
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2008 F-450 Lariat Dark Stone Metallic over Pueblo Gold 4x4(manual shift transfer case, manual hubs), High capacity tow 4:88s, Off Road, Camper packages, Sirius Sat, Upfitter switches, DVD entertainment, tailgate step, traction control, Audiophile 6-disc, PTC Supplemental heat and heated seats(warm buns), rear sensors, traction control, tailgate step. Built May 8, delivered May 24
Reese Signature Series 24k fiver hitch, I installed it myself, best hitch I have found yet
Line-X bedliner, heavy duty floor mats
2003 Sunline F281SR(weekend getaways)
Sea Ray 240 Sundeck http://community.webshots.com/user/C...host=community
I took the good advice here and disconnected the batteries over night and the problem seems to have gone away. The tech said on Friday that there were no codes but disconnecting it could have erased those as well as the "learned" shift strategy. So, for now at least, all is well again.
The Oasis report showed I have the recall for the EBP sensor and a reflash I believe. I'll wait on that one and see how it runs in the future.
Thanks again for the good advice!!
__________________
2004 F350 4X4 CC LB XLT Sport
Black in and out
Glad it worked for you - like Casey_1 said the harsh shifts will return sooner or later. I went through a couple of battery disconnect cycles before I finally decided to just get the flash. For me it was an easy choice since I never had the original aggressive T/H mode.
Even with the "weaker" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] T/H mode in my 06, it still kicks a** as far as I'm concerned. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] My 5th wheel weighs ~13K-14K loaded and I have taken it down many long steep grades in the mountains. It works like a champ. I don't have to use much downgrade braking at all, and when I do the combination of the massive truck rotors and the oversized axles/brakes on my trailer easily handle it.
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