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6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

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Old 02-29-2012, 09:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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what type of coolant???

I have an '04 F-250 6.0 PSD. Next week will be doing an EGR delete, oil cooler replacement. I am gonna do the Restore/Restore+ flush but I need to know which coolant to replace when finished. Everybody is saying CAT ELC. I understand the "ELC" part, but what is "CAT"? thanks for advice.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The standard for the ELC coolant was developed by Caterpillar. It is EL-1. Any extended life coolant that has the EL-1 certification on the bottle will work, it doesn't have to be made by Caterpillar. I know people have used Zerex, Rotella, International Harvester and other brands. I use Prestone ELC. Get whichever one is cheapest and most available in your area as long as it meets the Caterpillar EL-1 standard.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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thanks

thank you for your quick reply.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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There are many modern Heavy Duty Extended Life Coolants specifically designed for diesels. Delo ELC, Rotella ELC, International's Fleetrite ELC, CAT ELC, Mobil 1 ELC, and a host of others. They will address diesel cavitatation, provide superior metal corrosion protection, provide better heat transfer, require no testing and maintenance, be free of harmful abrasive silicates, borates, and phosphates, and have an operating life up to 1 million miles (Delo ELC). In fact International, who made your engine, recommends and factory-fills with these Heavy Duty Extended Life Coolants (Fleetrite ELC/Shell Rotella ELC). And in fact almost all heavy duty diesel manufacturers use Heavy Duty ELC's meeting the most strict requirements in the industry...Caterpillar's EC-1.
If you have a Napa close, this will work
NAPA AUTO PARTS
Just remember what ever you get it must be concentrate.
CAT is the standard that is set for the ELC coolant, so if it does not have CAT EC-1 Rating on it, it does not make the grade for an ELC coolant.
2 stroker
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Last edited by 2 Stroker; 02-29-2012 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Here is my situation. My truck is on Extended Warranty with 40K trouble free miles. It is due for a coolant flush and I have acquired all the solutions, distilled H2O etc. except for the replacement coolant. I have read all the information and ready to go except for this question.

If I change from Ford Gold to CAT ELC-1 could that affect the warranty on the cooling system or any other related parts? I have spoken to several service managers and never received a definitive answer.

Thanks in advance for your input.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvita View Post
Here is my situation. My truck is on Extended Warranty with 40K trouble free miles. It is due for a coolant flush and I have acquired all the solutions, distilled H2O etc. except for the replacement coolant. I have read all the information and ready to go except for this question.

If I change from Ford Gold to CAT ELC-1 could that affect the warranty on the cooling system or any other related parts? I have spoken to several service managers and never received a definitive answer.

Thanks in advance for your input.
Well it all depends on the dealer and Ford, i think if you have warranty and have ELC coolant in it and you have a problem you will get shafted and also i see you have a coolant filter Ford frowns on coolant filters that's how smart they are, so if you want to keep your warranty, it just kills me to say this but go back with the Ford Gold stuff but do the coolant flush with the Restore products what are your deltas ECT-EOT off your Edge.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Just so you know, i have warranty on mine 3 years left but at about 19k with deltas of 4* i did a 12.5hr flush on mine and taking the chance i will not have coolant related problems and after the flush still have 4* deltas and pulling my 5er i have 10* deltas.
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Edge Insight CTS with Expandable pyro
AutoMeter Fuel Pressure Gauge 0-100
Sinister Fuel Pressure Adapter
Updated Fuel Reg. Kit 3C3Z-9T517-AG
WOT 58lbs Idle 62-64lbs Just Right
HFCM Water Separator Drain Plug Upgrade
Ford Cetane boost every fillup
Amsoil By-Pass(Amsoil 5w40)
Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
Dieselsite Coolant Filtration System
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Delo ELC Coolant
Tow Command
Upfitter Switches
Pulling a 14,000 lb Alpenlite 5er
Roll-N-Lock bed cover
97 F350 4x4 PSD CC LB (sold it)
1700 Super Chip
PacBrake&ATS converter lockup
3" dp-4" exhaust
TruCool 28,000 lb cooler
Tymar Intake
A pillar EGT,Boost,Trans
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 2 Stroker View Post
Well it all depends on the dealer and Ford, i think if you have warranty and have ELC coolant in it and you have a problem you will get shafted and also i see you have a coolant filter Ford frowns on coolant filters that's how smart they are, so if you want to keep your warranty, it just kills me to say this but go back with the Ford Gold stuff but do the coolant flush with the Restore products what are your deltas ECT-EOT off your Edge.
2 stroker
Thank you 2 stroker. You always give good info. I was leaning in that direction in spite of what I would prefer.

When I purchased the Extended Warranty and the inspector went over every part and and operation of the truck and read all service documents he noted the Coolant Filter and said that was not a problem and even complemented me on the installation. Said it was a good thing to have.

As for the ECT-EOT deltas, when unloaded 8-10 degrees. When I have my camper on and pulling the horse trailer I am at or slightly above the truck's GVWR/GCWR. I have at times hit 15-17 degrees delta in that situation, but only when pulling in 100 to 110 degree ambient temps and on a 6+ degree grade. As soon as it levels off it drops back to less than 15 degrees delta. Such is life in Arizona in the summer.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I would do the flush a good flush then go back with the Ford stuff (don't let ford do the flush 1 hour in and out that's not a flush), i have pulled in 95* weather 7% grade 6 miles long and had deltas of ECT 218* EOT 228* and the fan sounds like a jet plane.
Good thing they liked the coolant filter some do some don't.
2 stroker
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Edge Insight CTS with Expandable pyro
AutoMeter Fuel Pressure Gauge 0-100
Sinister Fuel Pressure Adapter
Updated Fuel Reg. Kit 3C3Z-9T517-AG
WOT 58lbs Idle 62-64lbs Just Right
HFCM Water Separator Drain Plug Upgrade
Ford Cetane boost every fillup
Amsoil By-Pass(Amsoil 5w40)
Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
Dieselsite Coolant Filtration System
Dieselsite Boots
Delo ELC Coolant
Tow Command
Upfitter Switches
Pulling a 14,000 lb Alpenlite 5er
Roll-N-Lock bed cover
97 F350 4x4 PSD CC LB (sold it)
1700 Super Chip
PacBrake&ATS converter lockup
3" dp-4" exhaust
TruCool 28,000 lb cooler
Tymar Intake
A pillar EGT,Boost,Trans
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 2 Stroker View Post
And in fact almost all heavy duty diesel manufacturers use Heavy Duty ELC's meeting the most strict requirements in the industry...Caterpillar's EC-1.
If you have a Napa close, this will work
NAPA AUTO PARTS
Just remember what ever you get it must be concentrate.
CAT is the standard that is set for the ELC coolant, so if it does not have CAT EC-1 Rating on it, it does not make the grade for an ELC coolant.
2 stroker
2 stroker normally you are spot on but there are a few points here that are factually inaccurate.

- Almost all ....meeting the most strict requirments in the industry Caterpillar's EC-1
Cat's EC-1 rating is no more stringent than Cummins rating, Detroit's rating, and is significantly less stringent than the Deere rating.(8650-5)
- CAT is the standard
According to whom? I am a mechanical engineer for Cummins....yes I drive a 6.0 ford. but no that is not the standard, that is the standard for CAT engines, the same CAT that no longer makes on highway engines.
- You say "it does not make the grade"
CAT's preferred coolant does not carry the Cummins/Fleetguard 14603 rating and Fleetguard for years did not carry the CAT rating on any of their products, today they have EC-1 on their economy short life product(Fleetcool). EC-1 is a fine standard. So is Cummins 14603...So is any number of other proprietary ratings...don't buy the hype here.

CAT does a better job marketing there story than any company in America

Use an ELC (Extended Life Coolant) by a brand that makes you happy. Ive ran DELO and Fleetguard, because those are what we stock and I can get for quarters on the dollar of retail. 275k tows a 17k 5ewr toyhauler EVERY weekend (47 last year) Im 3-4degree spreads and max at around 8 spreads even towing. And my current coolant (Compleet OAT) does have a EC-1 rating...

Last edited by Stangger; 03-02-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:05 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Well i'm not a mechanical engineer just a retired service oil heavy construction 35 years back in the day we did not have ELC coolants just going by what i have been reading the past 3-5 years so if CAT EC-1 Rated coolant is not the right coolant list all coolant that are the right coolants to use so i can post the right information, do not like to mislead people. I'm running Delo that i got from International, just want to revise my notes.
2 stroker
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Edge Insight CTS with Expandable pyro
AutoMeter Fuel Pressure Gauge 0-100
Sinister Fuel Pressure Adapter
Updated Fuel Reg. Kit 3C3Z-9T517-AG
WOT 58lbs Idle 62-64lbs Just Right
HFCM Water Separator Drain Plug Upgrade
Ford Cetane boost every fillup
Amsoil By-Pass(Amsoil 5w40)
Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
Dieselsite Coolant Filtration System
Dieselsite Boots
Delo ELC Coolant
Tow Command
Upfitter Switches
Pulling a 14,000 lb Alpenlite 5er
Roll-N-Lock bed cover
97 F350 4x4 PSD CC LB (sold it)
1700 Super Chip
PacBrake&ATS converter lockup
3" dp-4" exhaust
TruCool 28,000 lb cooler
Tymar Intake
A pillar EGT,Boost,Trans
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Stangger - are you saying that ratings don't mean a thing - just buy any old ELC coolant? When you see ratings, they indicate a certain minimum quality which is a good thing. Now, I agree - Just because the rating isn't there doesn't mean that the quality isn't there, but why risk it? EC-1 was picked as a common standard so that the consumers (us) could have some degree of assurance that the product is going to work. With all the DexCool problems, and now the concerns over the Gold gelling, I sure wouldn't be advocating that "any and all ELC coolants are good".

That being said, I certainly don't know what ALL of the ELC coolant choices are - maybe most carry the EC-1 rating (who knows). Maybe there is a better standard (rating) to be looking for (also who knows). Also, no doubt that there are ratings that indicate a better quality product for diesel applications, but since the EC-1 rating is SUCH a common one, if an ELC coolant didn't carry it, I don't think I would want to consider it.

Point in case -

I have a bottle of Prestone antiofreeze in the garage. It says it is "for any make and model" and "can be added to any color antifreeze". Also on the label it states "Extended Life Coolant". BTW - I am quoting the label, and not advocating choosing coolants by color.

Nowhere on the labeling does it give ANY rating - there are no statements regarding conformance to certain specifications - at all.

A person would be crazy to use that coolant in there diesel truck.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:47 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Stangger - are you saying that ratings don't mean a thing - just buy any old ELC coolant? When you see ratings, they indicate a certain minimum quality which is a good thing. Now, I agree - Just because the rating isn't there doesn't mean that the quality isn't there, but why risk it? EC-1 was picked as a common standard so that the consumers (us) could have some degree of assurance that the product is going to work. With all the DexCool problems, and now the concerns over the Gold gelling, I sure wouldn't be advocating that any and all ELC coolants are good.

That being said, I certainly don't know what ALL of the ELC coolant choices are - maybe they all carry the EC-1 rating (who knows). Maybe there is a better standard (rating) to be looking for (also who knows). Also, no doubt that there are ratings that indicate a better quality product for diesel applications, but since the EC-1 rating is SUCH a common one, if an ELC coolant didn't carry it, I don't think I would want to consider it.

Point in case -

I have a bottle of Prestone antiofreeze in the garage. It says it is "for any make and model" and "can be added to any color antifreeze". Also on the label it states "Extended Life Coolant". BTW - I am quoting the label, and not advocating choosing coolants by color.

No where on the labeling does it give ANY rating - there are no statements regarding conformance to certain specifications - at all.

A person would be crazy to use that coolant in there diesel truck.
I am not aying that the ratings do not matter.

What I am saying is EC-1 is a rating developed by Caterpillar. It is tested and spec'ed ONLY by Caterpillar. Every engine manufacturer has their own coolant spec. If I develop a coolant, I want it to have as many ratings as possible, because if it doesn't I limit my customer base. CAT's EC-1 rating is developed by CAT engineers, specificlaly for CAT product.

Take a look at this brochure:
http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdf...es/LT36237.pdf

Now this is a link to a fleetguard sales brochure which is a Cummins product, I use fleetguard because I get it for employee cost. I do not submit that it is a superior choice only that it is an acceptable choice. The reason I provide this link look at the riht side of the various products, you will see a dozen specifications. Each manufacturer publishes their own spec.
Why?
It is a short term money maker. Engine company X develops a coolant product and then says in order to meet our warranty standad your coolant must be subjected to X hours of testin and meet Y parameters. Of course that engine company already has the coolant ready for you to buy, Now other manufacturers scamble to meet the new spec and will in time, but in the interim (often 6-18 months) a company has an exclusive coolant (or lubricant) that they can charge what they want for. This makes high margin business.
Personally I want my coolant to meet all these standards. If it was JUST CAT EC-1, I'd probably stay away. My contention was more with his phrase that CAT's standard is the most stringent and the gold standard by which all is measured.

5 years ago 88+% of all new OTR trucks built had either CAT or CUMMINS engines in them. So if you met the CAT and CUMMINS standard you could play in the largest market share, on highway trucks. CAT stepped out of that business 4 years ago. Cummins today is the only independent engine producer for OTR tractors. Every other engine manufacturer eithe produces their own truck or owns part share in a truck company. This isn't a good or bad thing just informational.

The next piece of coolant is the controversy around OAT technology...but that is a thread unto itself.

I've ran OAT compleat and regular compleat without issue in my 6.0, but that is a sample size of 1, so it is statistically insignificant.

To be honest, if you follow their service scheudle and advice the ford complete gold is perfectly acceptable. But not many follow that guideline, and it is way to tight of a tolerance to failure for my preference.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:56 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Succinctly my point of contention is that many throw CAT EC-1 around like it is a universal standard like an SAE API number.

The American Petroleum Institute is an independent company that produces a spec but not a product and third party companies aspire to meet their spec and earn their seal. (Such as current CJ-4 for diesel oil).

The same is not true of coolant specs.

Many people I have seen read CAT EC-1 and think it is an industry standard. It is not. It is a CATERPILLAR engine company standard.

Our engines are not made by Caterpillar, their standard honestly has no relevance to our application, and they would tell you as much.

Just know what we are quoting. CAT EC-1 IS NOT SUCH A COMMON ACCEPTED RATING...it is honslty quoted most frequently because it is easy to remember EC (Engine coolant) Grade 1...how many people walk around with CES 14603 or JD 8650-5 on the tip of their tongues.

For this I commend Caterpillar.

BTW I apologize for the typos, I have on hand in a cast and can't type for shat.
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Stangger -

thanks for the replies. very good info.

BTW - not all companies want to spend the big bucks on the API certifications. Schaeffer 5W40 comes to mind. They never did pursue the API certification for that oil.

I imagine that some coolants might be that way when it comes to some certifications, but I wouldn't want to be the guinnea pig.

As far as OAT coolants go, there are other examples (not many, but some) of folks using them in the 6.0L with not-so-good luck.

That being said, there are also a few examples of ELC coolant gelling ....

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/gen...t-i-think.html
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