'01 7.3 PSD hard/no start ZERO power once running

[Gen414]

Hey guys, been awhile since I've been here but hoping you won't hold it against me.
I've got a friend's F350 that he picked up at auction that was an old pipeline mechanic's truck, and has just a shade over 300K miles on it.


OK, "colder" weather, 50-60* (Im a TX boy, so that's cold to us), this thing will crank and crank crank and crank but won't start. I did the cycling the key, and even plugged truck in, made ZERO difference.

So, shot her up with some starting fluid, and popped off, but died. With not knowing if glow plugs original or not, we took a shot in the dark. We figured if we got in there and they had been replaced, we would leave em be.
So, I put 8 new glow plugs in, and I noticed that on drivers side head, it had 3 DIFFERENT brand injectors, and on passenger side head, the injectors are all teh same (and appear to be Ford original).

So, now Im thinking we have injector problem, but more to that in a bit.

So, get new glow plugs installed, and guess what? She fires up, but I mean NO POWER AT ALL. It has ZERO input from throttle. Meaning, that once it's fired up, I can floor it, and it will do NOTHING but just idle. Now remember, we are still talking about only 50-60* weather, OK?

Now, as it idle's and warms up, it SLOWLY gets better. You basically HAVE to let it idle for around 10+ minutes, JUST so you can move the vehicle and it takes 20+ minutes of running before you can go drive it.

Once driving, it has SLIGHT miss and is a dog. So, not knowing condition of fuel filter, I opened it up and looked OK, but put new fuel filter in anyways. No change.

Even though no code for it,appeared to be original, or very old, I changed out Camshaft Position Sensor. No change.


OK, moving on, truck sat for the weekend, and yesterday morning, went to go fire off, and BACK TO NO START AGAIN!!!!!! I had to cycle key on/off, nothing, and just kept trying to get it started, and FINALLY after about 15 minutes of trying to get it started (no startingfluid), it fired off, and no power as usual.


I know there are sorts of possibilities, because of mileage and being an old work truck and all of that, but does any of the above give you guys a better feeling about something like an injector(s)????


The oil...is very very nasty, and I know that plays a big part in how the PSD runs. I just wouldnt think it would prevent it from starting, or after running for 20+ minutes STILL run like a dog. It basically runs like it has NO turbo on it.

OK guys, I know that is a lot to read, but I know you guys are it when it comes to figuring out the good old 7.3. So, help a man out if you can.

Thanks guys.

[BroncoGlenn]

Keep any and all starting fluid away. You can cause catastrophic damage to the motor with it.

Check fuel pressure, boost pressure, change the oil based on what you described.

Throttle is a by wire design so there's no mechanical linkage. They do go bad but bust out an ohm meter and test first.

In all the messing with the glow plugs did you check the glow plug relay?

[Gen414]

Starting fluid, yeah I know (and is why I didnt use it the 2nd time around). The 1st time I was trying to determine if fuel related problem,figuring that if she ran on starting fluid, then I had a fuel related problem. But yes, I know about the dangers of starting fluid. All I did was spray teh air cleaner with it instead of spraying it directly into the turbo.

yes, glow plug relay replaced, sorry (did that bfore glow plugs).

Im gonna check lift pump pressure...should be @ 45PSI, correct?

Thanks for your reply.

[Gen414]

No one else?

[RT]

Sorry I didn't see your post before. Sounds to me as if you have low fuel pressure or low high pressure oil pressure. Where are you at? If you're close, I'll come throw the scanner on it. If not, I'll try to talk you through some tests.

[Gen414]

Originally Posted by RT

Sorry I didn't see your post before. Sounds to me as if you have low fuel pressure or low high pressure oil pressure. Where are you at? If you're close, I'll come throw the scanner on it. If not, I'll try to talk you through some tests.

Well, we ran a scan with our Snap On and everything seems to be in order as best we can tell. Granted, we don't mess with many 7.3's or 6.0's. ICP got up to @ 1600 PSI. Im under thebelief that this pressure should be in the 1500-2000PSI range, correct?

When we ran the scan (AFTER replaced GP's, CPS) it did say we had a short on bank #2. However, BEFORE I replaced glow plugs, we didnt have ANY codes. So, thought that maybe when put VC gasket back on, it got pinched and caused the short. Seems logcal, right?. SO, pulled VC off, checked wiring, saw nothing, put back on, exact same problem as before, but NO code (also pulled other VC JUST to make sure we didnt have Bank's confused)
So, why the "short bank #2" code that one and only time? You would think if it is in fact a short, that it would only cause the problem, WHEN it was shorting out and since we are no longer getting code, and still have the problem, has me baffled a little bit.


OH, thanks for response, and my shop is in the Alvin area.

[RT]

I'm 85 miles due north of you. I would not worry about the code unless it reappears. You might check the wiring harness where it goes over the valve cover - chaffed wires are common and can throw codes. I don't think that is the root of your problem.

Get an ICP reading and an IPR duty cycle - while cranking and while idling if it will start. Also, I really think a fuel pressure reading is important - that may be the main problem. These motors will run with the fuel pump dead - by siphoning fuel - but they will have zero power and will be very hard to crank. Here's a Ford worksheet that might help you along - coldstart.pdf

[Wrencher]

The TPS is the entire pedal assembly. Might be the no throttle response problem.

[klhansen]

I'd rule out the TPS, as you got it to rev after it warmed up.

Have you checked the EBP valve? Maybe that's stuck shut. A buddy had a no-start condition from that and they found it basically by accident. Poking around the engine trying to figure out why it wasn't started, noticed the valve in the closed postion, and was able to manually move it so it snapped open, and then it started. I guess the linkage bound up somehow.

Your IPR reading should be 14% KOEO, and when cranking, the ICP should pop up over 500 psi within a few seconds, then when it's idleing, ICP should be in the 450-500 psi range and IPR in the 10-12% range.

Also check the HPOP reservoir prior to starting. Oil level should be within 1" of the cover. It may be draining down somehow, causing low HP oil pressure and the no-start condition. LPOP might be starving for oil due to a cracked pickup tube or might just be flat worn out (grooved front cover) and not able to deliver oil to the HPOP at cranking RPM's.

[Gen414]

OK guys, thanks for replies and info. After being stumped, put the truck to the side for a few days to get some other work done.

I'm gonna check FP, then run diagnostics on the ICP and IPR. EBV has actually been gutted. I knew that was a problem on these trucks, and was one of the first things I actually checked.
TPS...well, doesn't add up to the symptoms we are having. As mentioned, once running, it will start to rev once it warms up (down on power, but will rev). If TPS is bad, would be all the time, cold/warm/hot whatever. Thanks for suggestion though.

OK guys, ill run some tests on Thurs or Fri and get back to you. Thanks

[Gen414]

Originally Posted by klhansen

I'd rule out the TPS, as you got it to rev after it warmed up.

Have you checked the EBP valve? Maybe that's stuck shut. A buddy had a no-start condition from that and they found it basically by accident. Poking around the engine trying to figure out why it wasn't started, noticed the valve in the closed postion, and was able to manually move it so it snapped open, and then it started. I guess the linkage bound up somehow.

Your IPR reading should be 14% KOEO, and when cranking, the ICP should pop up over 500 psi within a few seconds, then when it's idleing, ICP should be in the 450-500 psi range and IPR in the 10-12% range.

Also check the HPOP reservoir prior to starting. Oil level should be within 1" of the cover. It may be draining down somehow, causing low HP oil pressure and the no-start condition. LPOP might be starving for oil due to a cracked pickup tube or might just be flat worn out (grooved front cover) and not able to deliver oil to the HPOP at cranking RPM's.

Meant to ask...how do you check oil level at HPOP to see if low? Thanks

[RT]

Pull the plug on the top of the reservoir. Use something like your dipstick to see how far from the top the level is. It should be about 3/4 inch below the top.


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