7.3 acts like its running out of fuel - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
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99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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Old 09-19-2010, 06:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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7.3 acts like its running out of fuel

Hi all
I have a 2001 f550 with 27k miles on it .When it starts up some times
it lops really bad it my stall but if you hit the throttle right away it will straighten right out. It then started to blowing white smoke really bad and missing with no power After running at 65 mph for 15 miles . I changed the cps and the fuel filter and the o rings in the fuel bowl the lope is still their some times But the truck will go longer before it acts up and if you let off the pedel sometimes it will stop acting up and run fine and other times you have to shut it off for 2 minutes then it is fine again for awhile.While it is mising bad i have opened up the fuel drain and fuel pores out and engine keeps runing but missing bad and blowing white smoke shut it off and wait and start it up its fine. thier are no codes in the scanner
Any ideas
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Old 09-19-2010, 07:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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might be low fuel presure , the tank filters wher clogged and pump was bad in my truck but it sound like same symtoms, look at fuel filter posting to see pictures
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Old 09-19-2010, 07:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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not sure if this will help but i jumped in my truck wednesday and took off up the hill away from the house. truck made it about half way and lost all power wouldnt pull itself up the hill. i stopped on the hill and put it in nuetrel rev it up a little and it started dumping out white smoke. took it back home and took wife truck to buddys parts store bought a fuel filter and some of the power service diesel 911. asked him what he thought it could be he asked me where i filled up the last time . i told him quik trip he said they had heard alot of complaints adout water in the fuel from them. i put the filter in and the diesel 911 and it does alot better still trying to burn the bad fuel out of it. i did notice that once the engine warmed up the truck would run fine. i will let you know what happens when i get better fuel.
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Old 09-19-2010, 08:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You will probably need to drop the tank and remove the screens in the mixing chamber. Best thing to do is the in tank mods.

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Old 09-20-2010, 12:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I find it amazing that you have 27k miles on your truck. I put that on my truck in a little more than a year. How do you manage to only put 2,700 miles on in a year? You need to drive that thing, the truck needs it, and they're too expensive to just leave sitting, granted their expnsive to drive too! lol
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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thats what i thought under 30,000 miles amazing so its sat with fuel in it for a bit, and is the fuel pump making a funny noise? my new one is very quiet !
and when it looses power stop the truck and pull filter and there should be fuel squirting out and full to the top 50-60 psi , mine sucked air in when i opened it negative fuel persure ! ,
and take out fuel bowl heater and clean bowl and that tank has to be drooped some time welcome to the 7.3club

filters, pick up tube in tank , fuel bowl without heater
go to you tube watch powerstroke help fuel mod vids thay are very helpfull
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7.3 acts like its running out of fuel-photo1260.jpg   7.3 acts like its running out of fuel-photo1259.jpg   7.3 acts like its running out of fuel-photo1250.jpg   7.3 acts like its running out of fuel-photo1241.jpg  
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Hi All
Thanks For the Replies .Thanks for the welcome but I have been in the club since 1998 I use to help setup the rallies at the ford plant in ky and do the ids at the rallies I just have been posting much. First bought the truck new in aug 0f 02 so it works out 3300 a year it is driven almost every weekend almost always with a trailer on it . The loping problem when starting up has been around for awhile but the loose of power started about June of this year. I really think the problem is not bad fuel i always keep conditioners in the fuel and don’t keep it full unless i am going on a long trip. I beginning to think it is the high pressure oil pump it rattles and knocks really bad when it acts up.
Ps I had all ready taken the fuel filter apart and it was almost spotless
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Old 09-26-2010, 01:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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David,

I remember who you are, and met you at the ultimate Ford Diesel dot com rally and KTP tour (and International Engine Tour) about a decade ago, and I even remember when you first picked up that F-550 of yours... because I have one too.

So, while you get mucho props for being old school around here... don't discount the guys who have posted responses to your problem. In this case, they have a very high probability of being correct.

You're going to need to drop your tank. Period.

Whether it completely fixes your problem or not, you're STILL going to have to drop it. Here's why:

1. You have an 550.

As do I. That means, unlike the pickups, we have a steel tank. Our tank is vulnerable to rust as well as delaminization of the aluminized coating applied to the tank to prevent rust. Search this forum as well as google independently for "f-550" "tank" "delamination." It is not very fun reading, but the "seems like it's running out of fuel" symptoms you have are the same symptoms that allowed hundreds of similarly situated Ford Cab Chassis owners to narrow down the cause to the tank. I read many posts on this site, and even MORE on other sites, and dropped my own fuel tank to have a look. While my tank was not delaminating, it did have something else...

2. You don't drive your 550.

Neither do I. Not much that is. I only have 49,xxx miles. Same deal, truck is for hauling loads, not getting groceries. That means, the truck sits for a week at a time (longer in my case, I'm not lucky enough to go camping every weekend). During that week, the corrosion flakes that are suspended in fuel have an opportunity to settle out, down to the bottom. While these flakes and granules sit there, undisturbed, they begin to stick to each other and to the bottom of the tank.

This is partly a good thing, because keeping these contaminates out of suspension and stuck in clusters keeps them out of the liquid fuel stream that is drawn into the pump. I found one such cluster, a 3/8" tall hill about 3 inches in diameter, situated directly beneath the black rubber pickup foot. It was a hardened mass that remained unmoved even after dumping the tank upside down, shaking it, and tapping on the bottom beneath it. A plastic scraper and a vacuum got the rust cluster out, and revealed that the steel beneath had pin hole pitted to half the depth of the thickness of the tank bottom.

I caught it just in time to be able to press fill these pinholes with a trowelled layer of an oil, gas, and diesel safe two part epoxy made for use in marine applications where removing the custom fuel tank might otherwise require cutting into the hull. I made test coupons of the cured epoxy and soaked them in diesel fuel for a week with no evidence of softening. These coupons are still soaking on my test bench. I had read about JB WELD softening when emmersed for prolong periods, so opted not to use that. I also obtained the MSDS's for seven other petroleum rated two part epoxy products, including the 3 different "fuel tank" repair epoxys offered by Permatex, and chose according to the researchable characteristics of the constituent active ingredients. I digressed.

3. You've tried everything else (fuel supply bowl related).

Can't say I did that, 'cause I didn't experience the symptoms you did. I didn't have any symptoms at all, other than the cold start idle lope, which is a universally common, coincidentally occurring issue that is entirely unrelated to your running out of fuel while driving down the road. You've been around long enough to remember that Ford put out a TSB back in 2000/1 regarding this cold start lope, saying that "Engineering is investigating". And by early 2002, Ford announced that the cold start lope is "a characteristic of the engine" and "no remedy exists or is recommended."

You might remember a Ford-Diesel dot com member that went by the name of "robyn", who put up a big long post about the cold idle lope back around that time. The lope is reduced in occurance by turning the key to ON and WAITING to start... not for the glow plugs, but for the electric fuel pump to stop running. And if the lope still happens, it can be immediately rectified by a sharp press down and release on the throttle... something you already do.

4. You like to maintain your truck.

As do I. Dropping the tank should be looked at as a maintenance issue, unfortunately. The nature of the beast for steel tanks like ours.

Entirely independent of the reasons other people drop their tanks, as shall be further described in the paragraphs to follow, WE need to drop OUR tanks because they are coated steel... they can rust, and in some cases can delaminate. While I did not experience the delamination, I did find the rust, and saved myself $800 in not having to buy a new tank. Had I not dropped the tank, the corrosion I did find would have eventually eaten through to produce a leak that would be UNSEEN due to the fuel tank shield covering the bottom of the tank.

The rest of this post is optional reading for you:

Most forum members drop their plastic tanks to do the Harpoon mod (unnecessary on the cab chassis tanks).

And the most often written about reason why forum members drop their tanks is to do the infamous Hutch mods, as outlined in the guzzler how to page linked by another poster in this thread. I'm not convinced. I wasn't back then, and I'm not now, especially after dropping my tank and finally handling these "mixing chamber" parts in the pickup assembly that people so casually toss away. I recall that Hutch lived in Augusta Georgia, so he may never have encountered a problem with fuel gelling on him. The parts he recommended tossing were designed to efficiently and dynamically reduce gelling risk by recirculating heated fuel with tank fuel, as explained in Ford's 1997 patent application below:

DESCRIPTION:

1. An in-tank diesel fuel recirculating manifold for recirculating warm diesel fuel from an engine through a fuel delivery system to reduce cold temperature clogging of the fuel delivery system, with said manifold comprising... (parts list edited out for brevity)... a temperature sensitive valve assembly disposed downstream of said fuel return inlet and upstream of said fuel return outlet and said fuel supply outlet for directing return fuel to one of said fuel supply outlet and said fuel return outlet, such that, at relatively cold operating temperatures, return fuel combines with supply fuel and is directed through said filter and out through said fuel supply outlet and, at relatively high fuel temperatures, return fuel is directed out through said fuel return outlet.

FIELD OF THE INVENTION

The present invention relates to temperature control in fuel delivery systems for an internal combustion engine, and, more particularly to temperature controlled recirculating manifolds for diesel fuel delivery systems.

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

It is well known that when diesel fuel is at low temperatures approaching the cloud point, paraffin wax crystals will form. Further, at these cold temperatures, any water in the fuel tank may form ice crystals. To prevent wax or ice choking of the fuel system components, such as a filter, after a cold start, electric heaters are used in some prior art fuel delivery systems. Because newer diesel injection systems also have higher fuel supply and return flow for system cooling, the size of the electric heater becomes too large to have an adequate de-waxing or de-icing effect on the increased supply fuel flow. Therefore, it may be desirable to divert warm fuel from the injection system to the unfiltered side of the filter to de-wax or de-ice the filter after a cold start to unclog the filter and other fuel system components.

The inventors of the present invention have found that prior art temperature controlled recirculating systems, which are used to selectively divert warm fuel to the fuel filter to de-wax or de-ice the fuel filter during a cold start, generally do not adequately provide for de-waxing or de-icing close to the fuel inlet because these devices are located outside the fuel tank. This is primarily due to the fact that these devices are relatively large and would otherwise encompass too much space within the fuel tank. In addition, some of these devices do not adequately unclog the fuel filter because the recirculating devices are located remotely from the filter.

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

An object of the present invention is to provide a novel in-tank diesel fuel recirculating manifold for recirculating warm diesel fuel from an engine through the fuel delivery system to reduce cold temperature clogging of the fuel delivery system. In one particular aspect of the invention, the manifold includes a housing, a fuel supply inlet disposed at one end of the housing and adapted to be positioned adjacent a bottom wall of a fuel tank, a fuel supply outlet disposed at another end of the housing, and a fuel return inlet and outlet formed on the housing. A fuel filter is disposed within the housing between the fuel supply inlet and the fuel supply outlet. The manifold also includes a temperature sensitive valve assembly disposed downstream of the fuel return inlet and upstream of the fuel return outlet and the fuel supply outlet for directing return fuel to either the fuel supply outlet or the fuel return outlet. Thus, at relatively cold operating temperatures, return fuel combines with supply fuel and is directed through the filter and out through the fuel return outlet. At relatively high fuel temperatures, return fuel is directed out through the fuel return outlet.

In a preferred embodiment, the manifold includes two longitudinally extending adjacently siamesed tubular filter housing portions for housing two longitudinally extending tubular filter elements.

An advantage of the present invention is that heated fuel is used to de-wax or de-ice the fuel filter, thereby obviating the need for electric or other external fuel heaters.

Another advantage of the present invention is that wax or ice build-up within the intake area of the fuel system is reduced.

Yet another advantage of the present invention is that a low cost, easily manufacturable fuel recirculating manifold is provided.

Still another advantage of the present invention is that a relatively large filtering capacity within a relatively small amount of space is provided.
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I understand the concept of "WHY" the intake mixing chamber and filter screens for de-waxing and de-icing, but the inventor failed to realize what a PITA it is when these screens are clogged with dirty fuel. If the inventor thought it through, he might have come up with something a little easier accessible by the owner, as opposed to taking it to a dealer or mechanic to spend >$500 to fix this "flawed" invention. (Do you sense my frustration )

If wax and ice were an issue in my area, I would still eliminate the intake screen/chamber and install an inline HEATED filter. The return line is not eliminated completely in the mod, so the fuel would slowly heat over time.

BTW...I have yet to read where anyone regreted doing this mod.
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I like the ITP or Sinister Diesel kit because the filter is now external. Everything that gets into the tank is sucked to the pump and filtered by the external filter. So, if crap gets into the tank, you can easily spin off the filter and put a new one in it. If water gets in, there is a water separator and you can drain it out easily. If you have a stock designed tank, you have to drop it.
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hi All
Thanks NYB Believe me i am not discounting any info .I hope its not the tank because the air ride system has to come out to drop the tank i read that only on certain years had the bad tanks and the last time i checked 2001 was not in the list. I checked the hpop lines and the seals are leaking.I will replace them this weekend and see what happens.Thanks for the info on the tank mod we had a ralley in Fl years ago and did it to some truckes but i did not do mine because i felt the mixing valve was need in cold areas.Do know is thier any fix for the loping is it bad glowpluges .I replaced the seals on one line that was leaking it helped but still has problem under heavey load on a hill so looks like next step is to drop tank.Nyb did you replace your tank and were did you get it if i drop this and it is bad i dont want to put back a stock junk tank that is going to have delamination problems.
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