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Old 01-03-2006, 08:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

I'm going to change the ATF in my truck, couple of questions:

As long as it's "Mercon" (not Mercon V or the dual-use Mercon), I'm safe, right?

Doesn't matter whether it's dino Mercon or synthetic Mercon, right?

Thanks.
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Old 01-03-2006, 08:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

Right [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]
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Old 01-03-2006, 09:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

Correct, Have you checked out the procedure in the FAQ? Makes it a snap.

It depends on whether or not you will be towing a ton with the rig.
IF IT WERE ME, and I were going to tow at all, I would want the Synth fluid. It will control the Trans temp better, and IMO, give better all around protection. The 4R100 is a good tranny, it just isn't bullet proof. I want all the peace of mind I can get when I lay my foot into it climbing one of the hills out here in God's country.
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Old 01-03-2006, 09:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

What's your malfunction?
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Old 01-03-2006, 09:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

[ QUOTE ]
Correct, Have you checked out the procedure in the FAQ? Makes it a snap.

It depends on whether or not you will be towing a ton with the rig.
IF IT WERE ME, and I were going to tow at all, I would want the Synth fluid. It will control the Trans temp better, and IMO, give better all around protection. The 4R100 is a good tranny, it just isn't bullet proof. I want all the peace of mind I can get when I lay my foot into it climbing one of the hills out here in God's country.

[/ QUOTE ]

Synthetic won't control the trans temp better. It will run the same temp whether syn or not. What syn will do is provide a few degrees extra protection agianst fluid degradation if it does get overheated. BUT, fluid degradation isn't the big issue when tranny's get hot, it's harding of soft parts that can cause internal sealing problems leading to a non-functioning transmission.

Hammer
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Old 01-03-2006, 09:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

[ QUOTE ]
Correct, Have you checked out the procedure in the FAQ? Makes it a snap.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I printed it out so I can have with me as do the change.
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Old 01-03-2006, 09:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Correct, Have you checked out the procedure in the FAQ? Makes it a snap.

It depends on whether or not you will be towing a ton with the rig.
IF IT WERE ME, and I were going to tow at all, I would want the Synth fluid. It will control the Trans temp better, and IMO, give better all around protection. The 4R100 is a good tranny, it just isn't bullet proof. I want all the peace of mind I can get when I lay my foot into it climbing one of the hills out here in God's country.

[/ QUOTE ]

Synthetic won't control the trans temp better.
It will run the same temp whether syn or not. What syn will do is provide a few degrees extra protection agianst fluid degradation if it does get overheated. BUT, fluid degradation isn't the big issue when tranny's get hot, it's harding of soft parts that can cause internal sealing problems leading to a non-functioning transmission.

Hammer

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, when I say this, I am quoting Smoky saying [paraphrase] "controlling trans temp is the only reason to use Synth fluid".

Have you really tested trans temp in the same conditions and found that Synth does not keep it cooler? I believe you, just wondering.

Anyway, what do you recommend; why do you recommeded or impugn the use of Synth in the tranny. I'm getting ready to flush the tranny myself and am in a quandry about which fluid to use: dino or synth.
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Old 01-03-2006, 09:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

Hammer is correct. Synthetics will run the same temperature as Dino derived fluids. They just resist break down to heat better if there was to be a high temperature episode. If you have fequent episodes that are closing in on 250 F and over and want to not have to change your fluid right then and there you would use them for certain... but still should then go back to square one trying to find out why your having those high temperature episodes and fix them. Coolers, blocked lines etc. But overall your going to see the same temperatures with either of them in the same truck under the same circumstances.

For one thing.... Oil is oil...practicaly. It matters not all that much whether mother earth pressed it out of plants over millions of years or we pressed it out of plant materials just harvested in the field last week. It's just the residual tars that get left when mother earth does it for us and we refine it to a level of use. We can more easlily eliminate that contamination when we make if from fresh plants. But, for the most part, its still plant oil (in most cases). And almost the same thing really. "Synthetic Base" is a bit cleaner if we make it ourselves in controlled situations. So "Synthetic" is a miss nomer. It's not "synthetic" as far as biologicaly fundamentaly derived. It can be but in most cases we use Biologicaly extracted mineral oils now a days for it. Algea and plants of various Oil crop technology. Just some things are better about it when we make it on purpose rather than collect what mother nature gives us and we refine it to "good enough" for our uses. Thats entirely a oversimplification of it all but its the gist of it. There are some thing going on at the molecular level that resist shear and degradation between the two. But they both do a good job that we designed the machine around. One just might hold up better when outside those parameters a bit better. But its still outside the design parameter and should be returned to the correct parameter rather than trying to adjust the fluid to take the abuse. It would always be better to correct the situation than to rely on the fluid to overcome it. Thats the way I look at it anyway. In my feeble little mind. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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Old 01-03-2006, 09:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Correct, Have you checked out the procedure in the FAQ? Makes it a snap.

It depends on whether or not you will be towing a ton with the rig.
IF IT WERE ME, and I were going to tow at all, I would want the Synth fluid. It will control the Trans temp better, and IMO, give better all around protection. The 4R100 is a good tranny, it just isn't bullet proof. I want all the peace of mind I can get when I lay my foot into it climbing one of the hills out here in God's country.

[/ QUOTE ]

Synthetic won't control the trans temp better.
It will run the same temp whether syn or not. What syn will do is provide a few degrees extra protection agianst fluid degradation if it does get overheated. BUT, fluid degradation isn't the big issue when tranny's get hot, it's harding of soft parts that can cause internal sealing problems leading to a non-functioning transmission.

Hammer

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, when I say this, I am quoting Smoky saying [paraphrase] "controlling trans temp is the only reason to use Synth fluid".

Have you really tested trans temp in the same conditions and found that Synth does not keep it cooler? I believe you, just wondering.

Anyway, what do you recommend; why do you recommeded or impugn the use of Synth in the tranny. I'm getting ready to flush the tranny myself and am in a quandry about which fluid to use: dino or synth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like Smokey, but I really do think that his book knowledge of certain things doesn't really stand up.

I'm not particulary against synthetic...I just feel a synthetic blend is optimum for tranny use. So does Schaeffer's and so does Specialty Formulations. The problem with PAO based ATF's is that PAO is probably the least seal compatible oil out there (known to cause shrinkage) and internal sealing of pressurized circuits in a tranny is vital for proper operation. Dino oil has the best seal compatibility. So combining the two tends to create a blend that works in synergy. I have my own blend in right now consisting of Chevron group.II+ dino ATF with Mobil-1 syn and a couple quarts of Redline high temp ATF tossed in to balance out the lighter viscosity of the Chevron. But since SF has come out with the AUTOglide, I'd rather get a proper blend from them then a "In the ballpark" blend that I have in my tranny now. I would have liked to use the Schaeffer's but it has the dreaded Mercon-V rating.

Hammer
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Old 01-03-2006, 09:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

Nice, good explanation guys. Care to post the link for the blend again...

Otherwise, I'm goin' with some decent dino fluid for now, no heavy towing soon.

Any recoms on just dino fluid.

Thanks again men.
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Old 01-03-2006, 09:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

Is not regular Mercon a blend? I forget... I think Mercon V is ... but cannot recall if Mercon itself is.
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Old 01-03-2006, 09:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

[ QUOTE ]
Nice, good explanation guys. Care to post the link for the blend again...

Otherwise, I'm goin' with some decent dino fluid for now, no heavy towing soon.

Any recoms on just dino fluid.

Thanks again men.

[/ QUOTE ]

www.specialtyformulations.com has the AUTOglide. Buy by the gallon to save money. It is a mixture of Group.III dino (which could be called synthetic) PAO synthetic &amp; Ester synthetic. IMHO, the best dino based ATF is Chevron because of it's group.II+ base oil.

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Old 01-03-2006, 09:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

[ QUOTE ]
Is not regular Mercon a blend? I forget... I think Mercon V is ... but cannot recall if Mercon itself is.

[/ QUOTE ]

regular Mercon is not required to have one bit of synthetic in it.

Hammer
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Old 01-03-2006, 09:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is not regular Mercon a blend? I forget... I think Mercon V is ... but cannot recall if Mercon itself is.

[/ QUOTE ]

regular Mercon is not required to have one bit of synthetic in it.

Hammer

[/ QUOTE ]

So perhaps some do and some don't? Ya think? Never noticed...
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Old 01-03-2006, 10:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Automatic transmission fluid in 4R100

I think the best part about synthetic is the viscosity stability in cold temps. It obviously doesn't thicken as dino fluids do. The difference in shifting quality when the fluid was cold was profound with synthetic. I never noticed an appreciable difference in tranny running temps with synthetic but what I did notice was the stability of it and the protection it continues to provide when it gets really hot.

I overheated my tranny severely when I had plugging in my stock radiator cooler and the tranny got somewhere in the area of 300*+ before I noticed what was happening. I'm certain it had been at that temp a substantial period of time since the gauge had been covered up with a pile of clothes (mounted in the middle under the dash). I'm feel pretty certain that dino fluid would have been cooked and the tranny would not have survived. As it was that tranny was still functioning perfect 50K later and through many subsequent hard towing trips until when I traded the truck in at 97K.

Made me a believer.

Larry P
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