Can an Injector Fault Cause Engine Stall? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
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99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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Old 07-02-2012, 12:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Can an Injector Fault Cause Engine Stall?

New to Forum but 2nd attempt with 7.3L PSD.
Background: 1999 F250 4wd 6 speed manual, 226k miles. SUperchip programmed to hottest program by prev owner but dog chewed up the programmer.
Previous owner had problems with it losing power and stalling. We bought it for my wife to be used for the baby hauler (end of her mustang gt convertible days).

It has been to 2 mechanics, 1 diesel, 1 not so much. The diesel mechanic just replaced 4 injectors and all injector o-rings. All told I have now invested over $4000 and still having problems.

Problem: Pickup starts to miss during hard acceleration but only after it has been running for approx 15 minutes. It will continue to run rough when eased out of throttle until it sputters and dies. It will then start back up and seems to run okay until hard acceleration again. Ran a Snapon scanner today and is showing over 2400 psi from HPOP while it was missing. It passed the buzz test but faulted 2 cylinders on the contribution test...#3 and #8. The diesel mechanic just replaced #3 injector 2 weeks ago. The mechanic replaced two injectors at that time, then took it out and 2 more injectors failed. I am somewhat confused and so is he. Also, I am not getting any memory codes and KOER doesn't suggest any problems.

I wonder if I should take it to Ford and have it reflashed to factory specs and then start over as I don't care about the HP...just want it running. Any suggestions?

Last edited by DyedBlue; 07-02-2012 at 12:55 PM. Reason: ICP % to 65 when missing but 2400+ psi HPOP
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Additionally...

the uvch's were replaced as were the glow plugs approximately 1 month ago with no change in symptoms. The 4 injectors that have been replaced thus far are Ford injectors and the cam sensor was also replaced then...all by qualified mechanics.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I wouldn't be too concerned with the contribution tests at this point. Afew other things come to mind-
-yes, it is normally much easier to diagnose a truck when it's in it's factory settings, but in your case, that would add expense that might be able to be avoided.

- first thing to do is make sure the regular maintenance is up to date-ie oil change/filter, fuel filter, air filter

- You have somewhat limited info on everything that is happening, but with what you have it almost sounds like a fuel issue, which isn't monitored by the PCM. Other indicators would be some white smoke coming from the tailpipe as it's stalling. Possible causes are a faulty fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump, plugged pick-up screens, plugged filter, faulty o-rings in the water separator ...I would get a fuel pressure gauge hooked up to the end of the fuel rail (1/8" NPT fitting and a 0-100psi gauge) and tape it to the outside of the windshield. You want to check it under heavy load, not just idling. You should have about 60psi, but that might vary a little. If it's dropping to 15psi, it's a problem.
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The first part to be thrown at these trucks should be a PSD compatible scanner

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Old 07-02-2012, 06:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hi Tom! Glad you're back (again)

To the OP - glad the dog was trained to go after SuperChips - good doggy!

It does sound like a fuel problem. Tell your mechanic to stop throwing money at it. Does he think he works for the government?
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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i hear these things are prone to harness failure inside the valvecover.. theres a little harness that strings thru all the injectors.. and the heat gets to the insulation.. it's definitely a thermal issue.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyedBlue View Post
but dog chewed up the programmer.
Did he eat your homework, too?

Anyway, if your "diesel" mechanic replaced injectors #3 and #8 (even sounds like twice ), you need to get him educated (but not with YOUR money). Your truck probably has the grey Ford recall CPS in place. It regularly causes a CCT failure on those two injectors. An original black IH CPS or a Borg Warner CPS usually clears up the contribution test failures. (Reminds me that I need to do a CCT on my truck after switching back to the original CPS. The switch made the mileage pop up by nearly 2 MPG )

If it runs well then falls on its face, it does sound like a fuel issue, like tinman and RT suggested.
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks for the responses.

Tinman, it does feel like a fuel issue but it never smokes a bit when it does it which made me think it wasn't fuel related. Additionally, once it kills the pickup I can refire it and it only requires a second to start. I can try to hook up a fuel guage to it. The regular maintenance was completed recently.

RT, it would be good doggy if not for the program still being stuck in there. I think I will still have it flashed to factory because I want fuel mileage, not power at this point.

Whitehendrix, the uvch were replaced and I assume that includes this harness?

klhansen, the cps was replaced after the injectors. It is a good running pickup until it faces a load. Then you refire immediately and runs until you put your foot in it...especially on an incline...and then it falls flat.
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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You might not see copious amounts of smoke, just light wisps which may go unnoticed while driving. I had a fuel pump go out, but it hung in there for quite some time for regular driving. I'm NOT saying to just replace your pump, but in the end it may be the problem. Getting a gauge on it is the way to go. You can hook it up on the rear of the filter assy, but I prefer to tap it at the end of the fuel rail on the head which allows the elimination of check valves as culprits. Either way will require adapters to get hooked up.
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The first part to be thrown at these trucks should be a PSD compatible scanner

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Old 07-03-2012, 08:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Just a little more background. After the injectors were replaced, my wife drove this to work, approx 20 miles each way without problem. Up and down hills, 65 mph. SHe did this 3 days. On the morning of the 4th day it acted it up 2 miles away from her exit but it didn't kill the engine so she sat there for a few minutes and then took gravel roads the rest of the way in case it did die. She came home that afternoon the same way she went to work and had zero problems. The next morning the smae thing happened in the same spot. And that afternoon she drove it home without problem.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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One of the cheapest things to do is swap the CPS - another member on here had a similar issue - threw ICP codes, random stalls, bizarre behavior. He ended up swapping fuel pumps, IPRs, ICPs, injector wiring, etc. etc. and then finally swapped his CPS which cured the problem instantly. They can be really buggy.

I would recommend the dark blue CPS. Ford P/N: F4TZ-12K073-C
You're going to have to ask for the part number and not tell them what you are driving, because the parts guys don't know that it will work on our trucks. The black CPS would be best, but those aren't available anymore. The grey CPS is the durable replacement, but it affects mileage and performance. Don't get a CPS from the local parts store.

Here is an article you might find interesting - Black, Grey, & Dark Blue Cam Position Sensor Perdels Test

Even if this doesn't fix the issue, it is good to have a spare.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:47 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Please check fuel pressure. You are describing a truck I repaired a while back with crap in the tank being sucked up in the mesh screen on the bottom of the plastic bell shaped pickup tube.
That truck had the recall CPS and I replaced it and some of the whackiness went away but was still left with a truck that would effectively run out of fuel and a brief rest and it was good again until high demand was placed on fuel supply.
Before I got it the truck had been through some injectors. HEUI injectors aren't real good at operating with no fuel in them.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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it seems that i need to be headed two different directions here. I need to run a fuel pressure test and I need to think about replacing my new cps. To conduct a fuel pressure test on this, I should remove the shrader valve and then tie in fuel line to this with a pressure guage adequate to 100 psi, tape this guage somewhere I can read it, and then drive it for however long it take to act up? Does that sum it up?

Additionally, my new cps that was installed after replacing the injectors is the light gray one. So which course of action should be first?
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I missed where you replaced the CPS earlier. I'd check fuel pressure first. There is no schraeder valve on this model. You can tap into the back of the fuel bowl with an adapter like this one - 1/8" NPT straight pressure port adapter.

Alternatively, some people have had success using a rubber hose on the fuel drain valve. I've never tried it, but guess it would work for a temporary test. I believe everyone should have a permanent fuel pressure gauge on these trucks. Its something the PCM doesn't monitor and its very important to maintain good fuel pressure.
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I just ordered that adapter and a fuel gauge so when they get here I can do some testing. It still seems strange to me that it feels fuel related but yet I am getting contribution faults on #3 and #8 cylinders which seems to be a reflection on a faulty cps in some instances. My pickup is a 95 PSD so I might swap that CPS onto the 99. I can't seem to find any problems in doing this from what I have read thus far?
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyedBlue View Post
I just ordered that adapter and a fuel gauge so when they get here I can do some testing. It still seems strange to me that it feels fuel related but yet I am getting contribution faults on #3 and #8 cylinders which seems to be a reflection on a faulty cps in some instances. My pickup is a 95 PSD so I might swap that CPS onto the 99. I can't seem to find any problems in doing this from what I have read thus far?
You can definitely swap your '95 CPS into the 99. It'll work fine, or better than the grey one you have in the SuperDuty. The '95 CPS, if original should be the same PN as RT posted earlier in this thread.

But then your '95 may not run as efficiently. It might be better just to buy a new CPS to put in the 99. Then you won't have to worry about the o-ring seal possibly going bad.
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