cold starting issue - icp/hpop/cps/ipr ?? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Go Back   Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > 1999-2007 Ford Super Duties > 99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain

99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

TheDieselstop.com is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-03-2009, 12:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 199
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
cold starting issue - icp/hpop/cps/ipr ??

I'm experiencing a cold start issue where the truck doesn't want to start and requires prolonged cranking intervals before it will start. And once it does it is blowing white smoke.

I've just received my fuel pressure gauge and hose (will be installing tonight...hopefully) to see if I have adequate fuel pressure. And I will hopefully be buying a service manual and autoenginuity next month when I can afford it.

Till then, I've been looking around and after a few searches found some possible answers. And I will be checking the oil level in the HPOP reservoir when I get home from work, as some of the posts I've read mention a leaking HPOP reservoir.

But this post, hard start, long crank, no smoke, is both informative and puzzling to me.

After reading it, it does sound like I may have an internal leak in my HPOP reservoir. But the last couple of posts have me wondering what is normal with my tach. It seems like I can crank all day, the tach will read approx. 500 rpm, and the engine won't start...until the tach drops to 0 rpm.

Then it fires right up and the tach reads normal.

That makes me wonder if I have a bad CPS.

But once my truck is started, and warm, it will run fine all day. It does have a little of what I will call an intermittent hesitation, or slipping, when it is cold. And I have read that this might be symptoms of bad injectors. But in this same post, Excavator has mentioned a symptom of a bad IPR as:
Quote:
Ipr can also cause surging problems when driving.
So until I can get a scanner, (and would anyone recommend using one from autozone?) has anyone experienced the tach dropping out when the truck begins to start? Is this a normal symptom of a leaking HPOP reservoir? And is the surging/slipping another indicator of HPOP issues?
__________________
2001 Excursion XLT 7.3L 2x4 205K
DPTuner, Air Springs

2010 Jayco Eagle
absolutezero273c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-03-2009, 01:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
tbpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 856
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I would try replacing your CPS. The tach should not move up to 500 during cranking. Mine goes to about 200rpm. It is always good to have a spare cps so if that is not the problem you will have a spare. Also make sure the chip has not come loose. Probably a good idea to remove it to rule that out.
__________________
2000 7.3 powerstroke. PHP 6 position chip (stock,high idle,60tow,80dd,100hp,no start) . 6637 riffraff filter kit . AIH delete. Oil crossover. 6.0 tranny cooler. In tank mods. Wicked Wheel. EBPV delete. Walker 21470 muffler. Riffraff FRX
tbpower is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 01:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 199
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks, tbpower. I do carry a spare. I'll give that a shot.

I also wondered about the chip as I have developed a problem with my cable at the switch for the chip. Early on I thought if I removed the switch it would be an added theft deterrent. Good in theory. But I see the cable is not engineered to withstand the constant plugging and unplugging. I did buy another one from Jodi to replace this one.

I was hoping to be able to replace this tonight as well.
__________________
2001 Excursion XLT 7.3L 2x4 205K
DPTuner, Air Springs

2010 Jayco Eagle
absolutezero273c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 01:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 199
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
tbpower, I neglected to mention that I installed one of those high torque, gear reduction starters from DB electrical. Would that account for the higher RPMs when starting, compared to your 200 RPM?
__________________
2001 Excursion XLT 7.3L 2x4 205K
DPTuner, Air Springs

2010 Jayco Eagle
absolutezero273c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 01:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
tbpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 856
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Yeah, that could account for the difference in RPM. Dropping to zero and then starting still make me suspicious of the CPS. Since you have a spare, I would replace it and rule out the chip. You could have a problem with your icp or ipr. You can unplug the icp and see if that makes a difference in starting. It will generate a 1280 code.
__________________
2000 7.3 powerstroke. PHP 6 position chip (stock,high idle,60tow,80dd,100hp,no start) . 6637 riffraff filter kit . AIH delete. Oil crossover. 6.0 tranny cooler. In tank mods. Wicked Wheel. EBPV delete. Walker 21470 muffler. Riffraff FRX
tbpower is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 01:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 199
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I replaced the icp a few years ago. Hopefully that hasn't gone bad already. But I will unplug that too and see if it makes a difference.
__________________
2001 Excursion XLT 7.3L 2x4 205K
DPTuner, Air Springs

2010 Jayco Eagle
absolutezero273c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 02:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
tbpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 856
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
You could also have a problem with your GPCM or glow plugs. I think the Excursions have a gpcm and not a gpr. Have you tried plugging in the block heater and see if that makes a difference in starting.
__________________
2000 7.3 powerstroke. PHP 6 position chip (stock,high idle,60tow,80dd,100hp,no start) . 6637 riffraff filter kit . AIH delete. Oil crossover. 6.0 tranny cooler. In tank mods. Wicked Wheel. EBPV delete. Walker 21470 muffler. Riffraff FRX
tbpower is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 02:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Excavator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 3,296
My Photos: (11)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Start with all the simple things.
CPS is first place to suspect in alot of cases
Glow Plugs / GPR is another first place to check
If you have HPOP leak it can be identified with scanner while cranking as the ICP needs to reach 500 psi. If not reaching 500 it could be leaking injector,leaking IPR,leaking HPOP oil line or bad HPOP. The HPOP and IPR can be tested later if need to but keep it simple for now
__________________

99 F350 Super Duty CCLB 7.3 Auto DRW 150000 miles, multi disk converter,Hydra chip with TW tunes,ISSPRO EV2 pyro fuel trans

1996 F250 XLT Ext Cab, Powerstroke, 4x4 Dana 60, Bilsteins shocks, BTS Trans, Baby Swamps,Tony Wildman Chip, AutoMeter Pyro/Trans/Boost, Tymar intake, MBRP 4 in turbo back exhaust, 209000 miles,D&B HT Starter

1996 F350 XL PowerStroke 4X4 DRW, Auto Trans, Stock Work Dump truck, DDP down pipe,Tymar intake, 113000 miles
Excavator is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 02:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 199
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks, Excavator. I've got new GPs in but haven't checked the GPR.

Regarding the pressure, I just purchased a fuel pressure gauge, would having a pressure gauge on the HPOP be recommended too? Or is a scanner recommended here? Until I can buy a scanner do you know if the autozone scanners that are for rent would be able to tell me this?

As it stands, the longer the truck sits, the longer I need to crank it before it will fire. Will a scanner log pressure over time? Or, in other words, would it be able to visualize a decrease in pressure?

I don't have any external oil leaks, though.
__________________
2001 Excursion XLT 7.3L 2x4 205K
DPTuner, Air Springs

2010 Jayco Eagle
absolutezero273c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 02:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Excavator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 3,296
My Photos: (11)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
You would need a special scanner to work on Powerstrokes such as autoenginuity. You could use a manual gauge to check the out put of HPOP and also dead head the pump. Dead head the pump will tell us if the leak is in heads (injectors) or the IPR / HPOP

Either way you can monitor the PSI while cranking over. It needs to reach 500 PSI for PCM to turn on injectors. A small leak can cause alot of cranking to reach 500
__________________

99 F350 Super Duty CCLB 7.3 Auto DRW 150000 miles, multi disk converter,Hydra chip with TW tunes,ISSPRO EV2 pyro fuel trans

1996 F250 XLT Ext Cab, Powerstroke, 4x4 Dana 60, Bilsteins shocks, BTS Trans, Baby Swamps,Tony Wildman Chip, AutoMeter Pyro/Trans/Boost, Tymar intake, MBRP 4 in turbo back exhaust, 209000 miles,D&B HT Starter

1996 F350 XL PowerStroke 4X4 DRW, Auto Trans, Stock Work Dump truck, DDP down pipe,Tymar intake, 113000 miles
Excavator is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 02:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 199
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Do you happen to know what the top end of psi is going to be on the HPOP? IIRC, wasn't it somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,700-2,000 psi? Just wondering so I can see what kind of gauges might be available.
__________________
2001 Excursion XLT 7.3L 2x4 205K
DPTuner, Air Springs

2010 Jayco Eagle
absolutezero273c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 02:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Excavator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 3,296
My Photos: (11)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
you need a gauge for 3000 psi and can be found in any good hydraulic hose shop. You need a few fittings that they can supply as well. You can disconnect the HPOP hose and remove fitting from head and take the fitting to show them what you need. Here is how to dead head

To isolate the heads as a potential large leak: 1) Remove the line from the right head and cap with a suitable plug. 2) Remove the left-hand line and connect an oil pressure gauge capable of reading 3,000 psi or greater to it. 3) Crank the engine while watching the gauge for actual pressure. If the reading is low, the problem lies in the high-pressure pump or the IPR. But to determine which is the guilty culprit, you first need to replace the IPR to evaluate. If that doesn't correct it, the pump will need replacing.
__________________

99 F350 Super Duty CCLB 7.3 Auto DRW 150000 miles, multi disk converter,Hydra chip with TW tunes,ISSPRO EV2 pyro fuel trans

1996 F250 XLT Ext Cab, Powerstroke, 4x4 Dana 60, Bilsteins shocks, BTS Trans, Baby Swamps,Tony Wildman Chip, AutoMeter Pyro/Trans/Boost, Tymar intake, MBRP 4 in turbo back exhaust, 209000 miles,D&B HT Starter

1996 F350 XL PowerStroke 4X4 DRW, Auto Trans, Stock Work Dump truck, DDP down pipe,Tymar intake, 113000 miles

Last edited by Excavator; 03-03-2009 at 03:12 PM.
Excavator is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 02:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 199
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks, Jim. Looks like I have some work to do.
__________________
2001 Excursion XLT 7.3L 2x4 205K
DPTuner, Air Springs

2010 Jayco Eagle
absolutezero273c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 04:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 199
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
tbpower, sorry I missed that post in between. I have been plugging it in every night, all night. And went on a 500 mile trip this past weekend where I didn't have it plugged in for one night. No difference between being plugged in and not being plugged in.

I'm not sure if I have a GPR or a GPCM but am going to check that circuit, too.
__________________
2001 Excursion XLT 7.3L 2x4 205K
DPTuner, Air Springs

2010 Jayco Eagle
absolutezero273c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-04-2009, 07:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 199
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Due to competing time demands I wasn't able to check anything last night. But this morning I checked two things.

I didn't plug it in last night (20 deg F this morning), and after disconnecting the ICP, it fired up in 4 seconds.

That compares to being plugged in all night (9 deg F), the night before, and it took about 90-120 seconds to start it.

There was no oil on the ICP when I unplugged it, so I'm guessing that failure indicator isn't always present when, and if, the ICP fails?

So is this the smoking gun? I would think so. But you guys seem to know MUCH more than I do about troubleshooting these trucks.

Additionally, the last thing I checked, this morning, before I attempted to fire it up, was the HPOP reservoir level. If I take into account the thickness of the reservoir case I would say the oil level was 1 1/4 - 1 3/8 inches down. But if I subtract the thickness of the reservoir housing that would only be about 1 inch low.

Is 1 inch low an indicator of future, or current, HPOP issues?

I see 2 posts: One mentions 1/2 inch or less is full, and the other seems to say 1 inch is acceptable. But they appear to be discussing different model years.
__________________
2001 Excursion XLT 7.3L 2x4 205K
DPTuner, Air Springs

2010 Jayco Eagle

Last edited by absolutezero273c; 03-04-2009 at 07:57 AM. Reason: spelling
absolutezero273c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > 1999-2007 Ford Super Duties > 99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Wheel & Tire Center

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:14 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.