Ether - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Go Back   Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > 1999-2007 Ford Super Duties > 99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain

99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

TheDieselstop.com is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-19-2011, 11:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West Central Minnesota
Posts: 1,468
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Post Ether

I know this is the wrong time of the year, but, in an emergency could you use ether to start if you disabled the glow plugs? Would you have to pull more than one fuse to do it?
__________________
Jerry

2000 F250 Superduty 180K and counting 4X4 4R100 Glow Shift gauge - EGT - Boost - Tranny Temp Fuel Pressure on an A pillar mount Diesel Site boots Transgo shift kit K & N Stage II air filter 5" exhaust RiffRaff AIH to boost mod CCV mod DP-Tuner with W85 settings Amsoil Bypass oil filter 6.0 tranny cooler, W80, Cooling Mist water injection.
F250Truckin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-20-2011, 01:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 217
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I read that due to the high compression of diesel engines you should NEVER use ether or any other starting fluid. It could be damaging to pistons, rods, bearings, and crank. I would not do it.
__________________
2003 F-250 Lariat 7.3 PSD Auto 4X4, Stock with Banks Ram Air intake, IAH Delete, Amsoil fluids, Amsoil bypass filter system, Dieselsite coolant filter, 285/75R-16 BFG A/Ts, Autometer quad pod (boost, pyro, fuel psi, trans temp, GPR light), Marinco mod, Hutch mod, Harpoon mod.
7MAGMIKE is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 03:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West Central Minnesota
Posts: 1,468
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Post

I understand there are diesels with starting systems using ether. The glow plugs are a huge issue on our PSD because they cause ignition out of time and that is what can be so damaging. A cold weather start in an emergency could be very beneficial if it could be done safely.
__________________
Jerry

2000 F250 Superduty 180K and counting 4X4 4R100 Glow Shift gauge - EGT - Boost - Tranny Temp Fuel Pressure on an A pillar mount Diesel Site boots Transgo shift kit K & N Stage II air filter 5" exhaust RiffRaff AIH to boost mod CCV mod DP-Tuner with W85 settings Amsoil Bypass oil filter 6.0 tranny cooler, W80, Cooling Mist water injection.
F250Truckin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 07:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
tinman13kup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,537
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
It also comes down to timing. On a gas engine, the ignition is caused by a spark, which is timed according to engine position. On a diesel engine, the ignition is caused by injecting the fuel. The conditions are already met for combustion, so as soon as the fuel is injected it ignites. If you put the fuel source into the air, which is not timed, ignition can occur as soon as conditions are met for ether. This means the temp required may be reached before the piston gets to TDC. Not only are you playing with fire, you're throwing gas at it
__________________
Tom
99.5 PS CC 4x4 SRW ZF-6
Triple Pillar Gauges; Fuel pres, Pyro, Boost
AE, Alldatadiy, and half a clue
- AKA "The Big White Truck"
______________________________________________
The first part to be thrown at these trucks should be a PSD compatible scanner

PM please. No Visitor Msg if you want a response anytime soon
tinman13kup is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 08:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
rammertide07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Louisiana, Heart is in Alabama
Posts: 2,376
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via MSN to rammertide07
I have a 96 F250 with 650k on factory injectors. It has been ether dependant for a while with no damage done. Not saying its not a risk...
__________________
2001 F350 7.3 4x4 CC SRW/ Aeroforce Interceptor/ BD Thruster II/ Bellowed Up-Pipes/ 4" turbo back straight exhaust / CCV Mod /DIY 6637/ TS chip reburned with PHP tunes (Stock, 40 Tow WITH Whsiper tune, 80 Daily Driver, 100 Race, 140 Extreme, 140 smoke show)/160/stock FFD/PowerSlot rotors and green EBC pads/Recon smoked cab lights/MM Hubs/Hood/HPx/FRx/GPR switch-Indicator

50 State + Canada Diesel Shops

Power Stroke Dyno/Tech Site
rammertide07 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 09:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
drcampbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Motor City, Michigan
Posts: 3,533
My Photos: (18)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7MAGMIKE View Post
I read that due to the high compression of diesel engines you should NEVER use ether or any other starting fluid. It could be damaging to pistons, rods, bearings, and crank. I would not do it.
If that logic were correct, then you'd be well advised never to inject Diesel fuel, either. Normal combustion pressures are much higher than ether is likely to produce.

Ether's just fine if it's metered and injected properly.

The first problem with spraying ether manually is that you're likely to detonate the air filter housing and/or set the engine compartment afire.

The second problem is that you're likely to inject too much. The problem with ignition occurring far before TDC (top dead center) isn't a problem if ether injection is limited to an amount which will produce less (anti-) torque than the starter motor. Integrated ether systems also refuse to inject unless the crank speed is between 100 & 300 rev/min and the engine's cold.

Even though ether-induced anti-torque isn't a good thing, raising the cylinder temperature is. That's the main benefit of ether.

KBi - Kold Ban International - Ether System and Capacitors
(this may or may not be the best product, but they do have the best visuals on their website)



But back to the OP: If you can't start your engine without ether in June, you need to return to Square One and do some basic diagnosis & maintenance.
__________________
-
Douglas Campbell, P.E.

1986 Isuzu P'up, 177,673.8 miles.
- Hella headlights (highly recommended)
- DOT C-2 back end (also recommended)
- R-12 air conditioner converted to R-406a. Saved ozone and money
- 4.1:1 final drive converted to 3.4:1. Quieter, better mileage but it's a good thing I live in the flat Midwest.
- 9/22/2007, age 21: Still running well when reluctantly sent away for reincarnation, due to body & frame rust.
drcampbell is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 10:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
jstrauss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 719
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The reason you are not supposed to use ether on a diesel engine has nothing to do with the glow plugs or early ignition. As drcampbell points out, if igniting ether in a diesel engine was damaging, then the diesel fuel firing off would be just as bad or worse. The *real* reason you are not supposed to use ether in a diesel engine is there is no throttle to control engine speed. Engine speed is controlled by the amount of fuel introduced into the cylinders. If you use too much ether, an overspeed condition could result which would overrev your engine and then that might bend something.

Having said that, it is my opinion that you can safely start a PSD, and any other diesel, in a pinch using starting fluid if you spray the shortest little blast you can manage from the can while someone else is cranking the motor. If it doesn't start, you have other issues, more ether is not the answer so don't shoot again.

There are many on here who will scream that this is sacrilege - those folks have no idea how many diesels are started EVERY DAY on ether in this country.
__________________
1991 F150 SC 4x4 7.5L/ZF5
1991 SAE Bronco 7.3L IDI NA/ZF5
1974 F350 Tow Truck 360/T18
2005 Escape 2.3L/CD4E
jstrauss is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 11:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
rammertide07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Louisiana, Heart is in Alabama
Posts: 2,376
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via MSN to rammertide07
I would just do a short burst of ether on the air filter. Ether evaporates like rubbing alcohol, so the engine isn't taking in 100% of what is sprayed.
__________________
2001 F350 7.3 4x4 CC SRW/ Aeroforce Interceptor/ BD Thruster II/ Bellowed Up-Pipes/ 4" turbo back straight exhaust / CCV Mod /DIY 6637/ TS chip reburned with PHP tunes (Stock, 40 Tow WITH Whsiper tune, 80 Daily Driver, 100 Race, 140 Extreme, 140 smoke show)/160/stock FFD/PowerSlot rotors and green EBC pads/Recon smoked cab lights/MM Hubs/Hood/HPx/FRx/GPR switch-Indicator

50 State + Canada Diesel Shops

Power Stroke Dyno/Tech Site
rammertide07 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 11:45 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
rammertide07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Louisiana, Heart is in Alabama
Posts: 2,376
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via MSN to rammertide07
Also, an alternative method I've used on a 91 IDI is laying a gas soaked rag over the intake....fire extinguisher in hand of course.
__________________
2001 F350 7.3 4x4 CC SRW/ Aeroforce Interceptor/ BD Thruster II/ Bellowed Up-Pipes/ 4" turbo back straight exhaust / CCV Mod /DIY 6637/ TS chip reburned with PHP tunes (Stock, 40 Tow WITH Whsiper tune, 80 Daily Driver, 100 Race, 140 Extreme, 140 smoke show)/160/stock FFD/PowerSlot rotors and green EBC pads/Recon smoked cab lights/MM Hubs/Hood/HPx/FRx/GPR switch-Indicator

50 State + Canada Diesel Shops

Power Stroke Dyno/Tech Site
rammertide07 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 11:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 217
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
OK, so since most 7.3's we drive (probably 100% of us) do not have an elaborate injection system nor a calibrated spray finger and most people have the if a little is good a lot is better mentality ether is probably not a good idea. If my PSD can't start without a shot of ether it is time to do some troubleshooting. JMO guys.
__________________
2003 F-250 Lariat 7.3 PSD Auto 4X4, Stock with Banks Ram Air intake, IAH Delete, Amsoil fluids, Amsoil bypass filter system, Dieselsite coolant filter, 285/75R-16 BFG A/Ts, Autometer quad pod (boost, pyro, fuel psi, trans temp, GPR light), Marinco mod, Hutch mod, Harpoon mod.
7MAGMIKE is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 01:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
jstrauss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 719
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
If my PSD can't start without a shot of ether it is time to do some troubleshooting. JMO guys.
I don't think any of us disagree with this, but the OP said "in an emergency".
__________________
1991 F150 SC 4x4 7.5L/ZF5
1991 SAE Bronco 7.3L IDI NA/ZF5
1974 F350 Tow Truck 360/T18
2005 Escape 2.3L/CD4E
jstrauss is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 01:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
jstrauss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 719
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Also, an alternative method I've used on a 91 IDI is laying a gas soaked rag over the intake....
I have heard of this too but this sounds more risky to me than ether - the engine is very likely to suck the rag down into the intake. No throttle means max air intake at all times.
__________________
1991 F150 SC 4x4 7.5L/ZF5
1991 SAE Bronco 7.3L IDI NA/ZF5
1974 F350 Tow Truck 360/T18
2005 Escape 2.3L/CD4E
jstrauss is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 06:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West Central Minnesota
Posts: 1,468
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I'm not having trouble with the engine, far from it. I had just read an article on a diesel they start every day with ether but it does not even have glow plugs or other ignition sources. I was just wondering if you disabled the glow plugs and used a tiny amount of ether, would that be reasonable safe. Seems it is if your finger doesn't get heavy. Ether definitely is not bigger is better.
__________________
Jerry

2000 F250 Superduty 180K and counting 4X4 4R100 Glow Shift gauge - EGT - Boost - Tranny Temp Fuel Pressure on an A pillar mount Diesel Site boots Transgo shift kit K & N Stage II air filter 5" exhaust RiffRaff AIH to boost mod CCV mod DP-Tuner with W85 settings Amsoil Bypass oil filter 6.0 tranny cooler, W80, Cooling Mist water injection.
F250Truckin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2011, 07:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
NCR
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 98
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by F250Truckin View Post
I'm not having trouble with the engine, far from it. I had just read an article on a diesel they start every day with ether but it does not even have glow plugs or other ignition sources. I was just wondering if you disabled the glow plugs and used a tiny amount of ether, would that be reasonable safe. Seems it is if your finger doesn't get heavy. Ether definitely is not bigger is better.
I'd say if you can disable the glowplugs it would be A LOT safer.
NCR is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-21-2011, 12:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
drcampbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Motor City, Michigan
Posts: 3,533
My Photos: (18)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCR View Post
I'd say if you can disable the glowplugs it would be A LOT safer.
A) Would you like to bet your life on that?
B) Why would you ever disable the glow plugs if you were trying to start a Diesel engine? Seems dumb.
A small shot, while someone else is cranking the engine and it's turning at a reasonable speed, wearing goggles, a heavy winter coat, hat & gloves, is probably semi-safe with or without glow plugs. One way or another, ether WILL ignite. You need to assure there isn't enough of it to cause a catastrophe when it does.
__________________
-
Douglas Campbell, P.E.

1986 Isuzu P'up, 177,673.8 miles.
- Hella headlights (highly recommended)
- DOT C-2 back end (also recommended)
- R-12 air conditioner converted to R-406a. Saved ozone and money
- 4.1:1 final drive converted to 3.4:1. Quieter, better mileage but it's a good thing I live in the flat Midwest.
- 9/22/2007, age 21: Still running well when reluctantly sent away for reincarnation, due to body & frame rust.
drcampbell is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > 1999-2007 Ford Super Duties > 99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Wheel & Tire Center

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.