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99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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Old 12-02-2009, 03:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Glow plug system issues

Hello,
I have a '02 F350 with the 7.3 145K miles, auto tranny, 4x4. Lately I've been having a starting problem. Sometimes it starts right up after the glow plug light goes off and sometimes it takes multiple times of turning it on and off, cycling the plugs numerous times. The weather doesn't make any differance either, as it can be hard to start when its' warm and easy to start when it's cold. I know it's glow plug related because the engine will crank and the white fuel smoke is thick out the pipe. Is this possibly the GP relay? I just want to be sure before i go spend the $

Thank you.
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Welcome to the club

Yep, mine (2000) doing exactly the same thing.

Last weekend, I did some testing and found out the GPR was not always operating when you key on. You can check by putting a meter on the glow plug side of the GPR and cycling the key. If yours fails like mine, you may have to cycle the key a few times to get the signal to the GPR.

I'm going to do the GPR LED mod in the mean time. That way, I can tell from the cab if the damn GPR is latching. Total PITA!!

I have heard that this can be a problem with the ECU and replacing the ECU with a reman will fix. I think the quality of the soldering at the mexico factory was less than steller. I'm going to put my ECU under the magnifying glass this weekend and check for cold solder joints.

Good luck, this is a maddening thing to diagnose!

jer
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Sounds like the GPR--only $27 at International. I replaced one a couple of years ago and looks like I have to do it again this weekend. What is this GPR mod?
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Gpr Led

Go to Radio Shack, buy yourself a 12v LED. Wire the glow plug side to the LED + and ground the other side of the LED, mount the LED in a convenient place and, viola! You now have a LED that lights up whenever the GPR operates! Serves no other purpose other than to indicate if the GPR is operating.

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Old 12-03-2009, 11:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Have you checked to see if you have any bad glowplugs.
i work in a diesel shop and replace lots of bad glowplugs.
also just because your light on the dash goes out dosent mean that your glowplugs have shut off.
it is controlled all by the ecu and up in the northern climates i have seen them stay on for as long as 2 minutes by themselvs.
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Old 12-03-2009, 05:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Check the Hard/No Start link in my signature for how to check the GP system.

Get your GPR (if needed) from International as mentioned.
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Hard or no-start? Check Here
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airframer509 View Post
Hello,
I have a '02 F350 with the 7.3 145K miles, auto tranny, 4x4. Lately I've been having a starting problem. Sometimes it starts right up after the glow plug light goes off and sometimes it takes multiple times of turning it on and off, cycling the plugs numerous times. The weather doesn't make any differance either, as it can be hard to start when its' warm and easy to start when it's cold. I know it's glow plug related because the engine will crank and the white fuel smoke is thick out the pipe. Is this possibly the GP relay? I just want to be sure before i go spend the $

Thank you.
Sure doesn't sound like glow plugs to me,, if the bold print is accurate in his post....
white smoke is an indicator of unburnt fuel, could be an injector bad, injector "O" rings maybe?
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You can check to see if its GPR/Glow Plug-related by plugging in the block heater. If it starts "easier" with "less smoke" it is probably the GP system. Quotes mean they are relative terms.

White smoke is obviously unburned fuel. The GP's stay on for up to 2 minutes after the engine starts to assist combustion. If you have a problem with GP's it looks pretty bad on a cold day.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
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?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickie View Post
You can check to see if its GPR/Glow Plug-related by plugging in the block heater. If it starts "easier" with "less smoke" it is probably the GP system. Quotes mean they are relative terms.

White smoke is obviously unburned fuel. The GP's stay on for up to 2 minutes after the engine starts to assist combustion. If you have a problem with GP's it looks pretty bad on a cold day.
what is the ecu
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Trouble completing my post (POS "smart"phone).

It's a simple check before you have to spend some bucks on inspecting/testing/replacing injectors.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Best fix is to replace the solenoid if you have doubts about it check the glow plugs and replace if needed. Then disconect the icm control wire and install a push button under the dash if the injectors are good and batterys are hot it should start without glow plugs at 45 to 50deg and above unless you have engine problems.

Sometimes the control module will leave the plugs on too long and burn out the solenoid or glow plugs with a push button if you don't push it don't get power.
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:12 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Dealer replced four years in a row with ford gpr. I wised up, aftermarket, NAPA I believe, gpr has lasted three years without trouble and without plugging in.
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Some on here still insist that it could be GP related... wow. What does he say about "The weather doesn't make any difference"
These trucks do NOT NEED THE GP SYSTEM to start over 50*,, not at all! If he has trouble starting in temps higher than that, there is another problem. There are definitive tests to do to check the GP system. If it passes these tests, then the GP system is OK, and working as advertised! No reason to look at it anymore.
Look for the PROBLEM, instead of having blinders on...

Airframer509.... DO THIS to check your GP system, if it checks out. Look for the real problem....
I copied this from another forum I frequent...

GP SYSTEM TEST
The main thing that is going to make or break a cold start for your PSD is the glow plug system. This is barring any gelled fuel, etc. The glow plugs, and glow plug relay system can be tested, and are fairly inexpensive / straight forward to replace any components needed.

The first and easiest test is to check the glow plug relay.

1) Let the truck sit overnight in fairly cold temps ( < 45º ) this will require the glow plugs to activate for a good amount of time for the truck to start properly.

2) The test part can be done several ways, first of all if you have a voltmeter, dial it up to the correct setting for 12V systems, ground it to a good ground, and put the + lead on the right/back side of the glow plug relay. With the key off, that terminal should read zero, while the other one (which connects to the battery) should read +- 12V at all times. You want to measure the one with zero voltage.
When the key is turned on, the one that had zero should go up to 12V and stay there for 30sec - 2min. This is feeding the glow plugs 12V to heat them up.

3) Have someone turn the key on for you, or turn it on and get back around to your tester quickly, and see if you have 12V across the relay. If you do, see how long the relay stays activated, if it goes off very quickly it's not allowing the gp's enough time to heat up and the truck is going to start rough. If the relay fails this test, replace it.

2-3a.) Some alternate methods to above, instead of using a voltmeter, jumper across the relay either with a screwdriver (which will cause sparks until you make a good contact) or with a set of jumper cables from the hot + terminal on one of your batteries, to the gp side of the relay. Make the connection for about 45 seconds, then immediately try to start the truck. If it fires up nicely, whereas it was struggling before, the relay is bad.

4) If the relay passes the test, and is good. Or if you replace the relay and still experience hard starts, you will need to move on to testing the glow plugs themselves. This can be done quite non-invasive, only requiring you to pull the valve covers if you find a bad glow plug, to replace it / them.

5) There are also a couple ways to test the glow plugs, you will need either a test light, or a good voltmeter that will read in ohms.

5a) Voltmeter method - Remove the large rectangular plug leading to the valve covers on either side of the engine. This plug powers your glow plugs and injectors. The 2 outside pins are your glow plugs, the 4 inner ones are for the injectors. () () () () () () () () Blue is the Glow Plugs Red is the injectors. Be very careful not to insert your test lead into one of the injector pins. The IDM feeds the injectors 110V and could cause a lot of sparks if it happens to try and actuate the injectors while you're testing, and could worse destroy the IDM, so steer clear of those and make sure you test only the 2 outer pins on each side of the plug.
Connect the ground lead of your voltmeter to a good ground, and insert the positive + test lead into the first glow plug pin.
A good glow plug will read btwn 0.8 - 1.2 ohms a weak glow plug will have much less resistance, and a completely dead one will have unlimited resistance through it because the electrode is internally burned out. Make note of the plugs that are out of range based on the cylinder number, and replace them. The cylinders are numbered 1-3-5-7 on the pass side, front to back, and 2-4-6-8 on the driver's side, front to back.

5b) The test light method - See 5a and substitute voltmeter for test light, if you don't have a voltmeter. Connect the negative end of the test light to a good ground, and insert the test light into the outer 2 terminals on the plug. If the test light illuminates the plug is still working. If the test light does not illuminate, the plug is bad. Make note of the bad ones and replace.
The disadvantage to this method is that it won't tell you if a glow plug is weak, only if it is completely burned up.


*note this does not apply to california emissions equipped vehicles (cali trucks) or the Excursion with 7.3L PSD engine (all years) as they use a controller to actuate the glow plugs instead of a relay. A bad glow plug on these trucks will throw an engine code.

Replacement parts - For the glow plug relay your choices are to buy a stock replacement ($$$), get a GPR-109 from NAPA for less than 30 bucks. This one will work, but some have had issues on them not lasting as long as the stock unit. There is a good option from Stancor, the part number for which I will let someone post. Or you can always find one that's designed similarly and rated for the voltage/amps that the stocker is or better, and use it.
Here is a link for the Stancor unit: http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pro...DA8041ECE1 7F

For glow plugs, you want to use only Motorcraft or Bosch plugs. This is very important as the Autolite / Champion cheap brands have a bad reputation for swelling up, burning out prematurely, and breaking off in the head. The motorcraft part number is ZD-11.

The relay is simple to change, disconnect the 2 large terminals, and the smaller ones, unbolt the relay, and install the new one.

The glow plugs are located under the valve covers. Remove the vc's and you will see 4 white wires, with black plug ends connected down beside the injector. Remove the plugs from the gp's, and remove the gp's with a 10mm deep socket.

The only thing I can see with this is his "Test light method" (Continuity check) is not real sound. But he notes that. I would only check the GPs with an ohm meter myself.
If the GP RELAY checks good, and the GP's Ohm good. And if you check for 12vdc at the harness to the GP plugs at the heads, while the key is on,,, (Something he didn't mention, but is far less likely to be bad, (it would be the wireing someplace in the harness) Then if all this checks out, your GP system is healthy,,, look for the real problem.
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Last edited by JimTJr; 12-29-2009 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I had trouble starting for the first time this morning. I have 220K miles now and haven't had to do anything to the glow system yet. I also haven't had the CPS recall done yet, but I have replaced it on my own before the recall.

If the CPS is bad, it shuts off the fuel, right? When I was cranking it, it was smoking and it billowed a lot of smoke when it finally started. This points to a glow plug or low battery issue in my mind. I'm trying to "sanity check" my thoughts. I'm going to go ahead and get batteries this afternoon because the cranking speed is low.
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Old 12-29-2009, 04:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I had trouble starting for the first time this morning. I have 220K miles now and haven't had to do anything to the glow system yet. I also haven't had the CPS recall done yet, but I have replaced it on my own before the recall.

If the CPS is bad, it shuts off the fuel, right? When I was cranking it, it was smoking and it billowed a lot of smoke when it finally started. This points to a glow plug or low battery issue in my mind. I'm trying to "sanity check" my thoughts. I'm going to go ahead and get batteries this afternoon because the cranking speed is low.
Your problem sounds like a GP issue to me. Probably not batteries, although that might contribute to it. Typically if battery voltage while cranking is low enough, you won't see any smoke, as the electronics won't fire the injectors.

A quick check of the GPR is to clamp a jumper cable from the battery positive terminal to the GPR output terminal when starting in the morning. If it fires right up, then your GPR is most likely bad.
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99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version), AIS, coolant filter w/"hokum" bracket, regulated return, heated mirror mod, lighted cupholder, Marinco heater plug-in.

Hard or no-start? Check Here
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