Hard Start No Start - Ford Dealers Bad

[Rowan Redfire]

Please offer an opinion on this problem. The FORD “experts” cannot seem to figure it out.
Truck sits approximately 7 to 8 hours overnight
Key is engaged to start
Wait to hear fuel pump and whatever else it’s doing until I hear click under dash.
Turn key to start and often it will take 15 to 20 minutes+ to finally get the engine to catch using approx. 1 minute cranking bursts.
The following parts have been replaced recently in an effort to address this.
8 BERU glow plugs installed - me
GP relay - me
EOT sensor/sender - me
Fuel filter – me
Fuel Pressure is good - Ford
Injector Pressure regulator – Ford
All injector O rings replaced – Ford
Drivers side injector harness – Ford
One injector replaced that was throwing a code – Ford
No other codes present - Ford
HPOP reservoir has been drained and oil replaced. Is at proper level and remains that way over night.
New Optima redtop batteries
Hi output alternator
Using Rotella 5w40 T6 synthetic oil
Regularly use Stanadyne injector cleaner/longevity promoter at fillup
Once the truck is driven to work (approx. 55 miles) it sits for 8+ hours and starts on the first turn of the key.
After the Ford Dealer visit and $2200 worth of shoot in the dark T shooting the truck only starts with the heater plugged in and not at all when below 40 degrees Fahrenheit
Dealers says no codes but it sounds a lot like the CMP????

I had to take the truck back because the best they could come up with is all injectors replaced or a new engine????? THis and no guarantee this will fix the problem.

Bankrupt in the boondocks

[ReefBlue]

Not much left except the IDM and the computer . . .

[klhansen]

Anyone do a crankcase pressure check or a compression check? It could just be completely tired out. Low compression will cause hard starts that GP's can't help that much with.

Have you confirmed with a clamp-on ampmeter that the GP's are drawing current? Checked Battery connections and ground cable connections? Has anyone checked cranking voltage?

Other than the engine itself you nearly have a new truck. They seem to be bleeding you dry with the shotgun approach. I wouldn't take it back there. Find a diesel shop that knows what they're doing.

It's probably not the CPS, but that's way cheaper than a lot of the other things that have been swapped, so why not??

[tinman13kup]

You might want to check the IAT sensor to see if it's within the right temp range. This can be done with a multimeter. You almost need to check all the input sensors for the PCM and ensure the readings are what they should be. It's a shame because you could have gotten AutoEnginuity many times over with what the dealership has cost you.
I agree with Kevin on the compression thing. How many miles on the truck? A bad air filter in a dusty environment can spell doom for both the turbo and rings. Does the compressor fins on the turbo have nice clean sharp edges or are they all pitted and worn? That can be an indicator of dirt ingestion.
You might consider finding a rental place to get a compression tester and do it yourself.

[klhansen]

Tom's post reminded me about the EOT (Engine Oil Temp) sensor. If it's got a high resistance connection that's still within range (doesn't throw a code) telling the PCM that the engine is hot when it really isn't, then you'll play hell getting it started. The PCM adjusts HP oil pressure and injector timing based on oil temp.

I once tried plugging a resistor across the EOT sensor connector (simulating hot oil) to do a cold oil contribution test and it was tough to get it going.

Also agree with Tom on getting AE. It's an excellent tool to have on hand, and like he said could easily have saved you from spending all that money at the dealer.

[tinman13kup]

He replaced the EOT, but on that note there is always the infamous wire chafe on the drivers valve cover that can change the reading. AE will show what the PCM sees, compared to what you see.

edit: suppose I should say where/how to check it. Remove the air filter top and tube that goes to the bracket on the drivers valve cover. Using a 10mm socket, unbolt the big square block wiring connector on that bracket and bend it upwards, paying attention to the bottom side of the harness about an inch from the connector. The vibrations from the engine can cause the wire insulation to be chafed, shorting that circuit out as an intermittent issue.

[grandpawj]

Sure sounds like the problem you are having matches mine and a dozen other 7.3 owners!! Who ever finds the grimlin, please jerk it out with a wire hook and show it to the rest of us.

[Rowan Redfire]

Thanks Y'all
Your input is much appreciated especially since my Ford buddies couldn't seem to pick up on the major clue here.
What in the engine would change sitting overnight. Thought maybe the O rings would dry up or something so I approved that work. I believe those guys would have let me approve everything on the dang engine. So much for paying for expertise.
I will look at some of the things you suggested and the AE when my wife gets over digesting the $2200 and no fix. Sure would like to take those guys to court.

[tinman13kup]

If you post your location, someone might be close and willing to hook up AE to get a baseline read on the sensors.

[TransBrain]

What year is the truck? Does it have a glow plug module??

klhansen's first post is where I would start.

[Baldrick]

Our '99 F250 7.3L Powerstroke is in the shop right now for similar issues. It's only a hard start in the morning when the temp goes below 40F. Once it gets down to about 35F it HAS to be plugged in or it will never start. Last Monday it wouldn't start at all, was kinda cranking but wouldn't start up and it wouldn't jump either. Had it towed to a shop recommended by a friend and once there they told us they didn't work with diesels! No option but to tow to a truck place down the street (first tow was free, 2nd I had to pay for!) and I'm not sure about these people. First they said it was the starter and replaced that, then they said they thought it was a glowplug issue and then yesterday they said the glowplugs and relay checked out fine and that it's a fuel issue. Said the fuel filter was rusty (!) but fortunately the tank is plastic. We're going down there this morning to "discuss our options" which makes me nervous. Bill is currently $720 and increasing.

Like the first post, once it's started all other starts furing the day are first time...

[RT]

I noticed the OP replaced his batteries - but what about the starter? Cold engines are harder to crank than warm engines. If your starter is borderline, being cold might push it over the edge as far as cranking speed goes. A good Nippo style starter could do wonders.

[Griz]

[QUOTE=Rowan Redfire;2233845]
What in the engine would change sitting overnight. QUOTE]
The most obvious answer would be a sensor, EOT, Ambient Air Temperature and Barometric Pressure. But don't over look the starter motor as someone suggested. A weak starter will work fine for a warm start. But will have problems starting a cold motor in colder conditions. Also give the harness that runs across the driver's side valve cover the greasy eyeball. This has been known to cause all kinds of weird problems. At this point I would start with your starter. Pull it and have it tested.

Griz

[RT]

But - even if tests good on a bench - it could still have trouble spinning a diesel in cold weather. If you could watch the cranking RPM with a scanner - you'd have a better idea if it was the problem.

[91diesel]

+1 on location, find someone with autoenginuity.

Will it restart after you let it run for just a minute or so? Do you have any smoke while cranking? When cranking, does it fire or try to start and, when it does start, does it fire right up or stumble up? when it is running, any low power or smoke issues?

Did you end up finding anything with the eot wiring/engine harness?

Anthony