7.3L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.
Hard Start / No Start when warm = Leaky injector O-rings...need advice
Sorry to clutter up the forum, but i've been searching and can't seem to find an answer to my question. We have an 02 7.3 with 165K on it. We bought it last Sept, and at the time they put a new GPR and 2 new batteries, i checked the GPR per the hard start sticky and i'm getting 12.7 volts consistantly there. When the truck is cold, it cranks and fires right up, but once we drive it a few miles and turn it off, it's getting harder and harder to start to the point where it'll crank for almost 10 seconds, and then a couple cylinders will catch, a few more then finally all 8 go. A few times we've not been able to get it to start until the 3rd or 4th attempt and seems to be betting worse. Wifey iS NOT HAPPY and is ready for me to take it to the dealer, but i was just laid off so can't afford to bring it to the dealer
Somebody else from Colorado posted a similar thread a couple weeks ago, and while mine starts up pretty well when warm......it definitely starts better when the truck is cold rather than hot. That's three trucks with this problem all from Colorado. Perhaps it's the crappy fuel we get here?
__________________
2001 F-350 Crew Cab XLT PSD 4x4, Long Bed, 6-speed, 3.73, Manual Transfer, Power TTT Mirrors, 122k miles.
1989 Toyota 4x4 xtracab SR5 V6, Beat to heck with 200k+ miles and still running strong.
well it never had this problem before, and now it's just getting progressively worse, the truck has too cool completely in order to fire right up, otherwise it just cranks and cranks and finally almost 1 cylinder at a time starts to catch....has no one else had this happen
i had a similar problem, started out like your's and it consistently got worse until i had to let it sit for an hour or so to restart it. replaced gpr and batteries. turned out to be the starter, went with the high torque DB starter. haven't had a problem since
Have same problem truck starts fine cold but after about 1/2hr of driving it takes a lot longer to crank up and start and at times it seems to only fire a couple of cylinders then the rest catch up. Thinking maybe o rings are bad on injectors and oil is thinner so they dont fire as well not sure though but its getting worse. HELP
2002 Ford Excursion 245K miles Dp Tuner, Cross-Over fuel and oil, AFE Stage II, Banks Exhaust
Thinking maybe o rings are bad on injectors and oil is thinner so they dont fire as well not sure though but its getting worse.
That's a definite possibility. The cold oil won't leak as much because it's thicker, and when it gets up to temp, it may leak enough so that the HP oil doesn't get up to the required starting pressure (500 psi).
If you can get a PSD capable scan tool on it, monitor ICP and IPR duty cycle when cranking. If IPR duty cycle gets above 85% (I think that's the limit), then you most likely have a HP oil leak under the valve covers.
Also try pulling the ICP sensor wiring connector off to see what happens. If the sensor is biased (telling the computer that the pressure is actually higher than it really is), it might cause the IPR to dump pressure. Pulling the wiring connector off makes the PCM use default control values.
So it gets better, i had the CPS replaced the other week to the grey one cause the truck started acting up in Sept and died a few times at random while driving, but would fire right up after it died, so we brought it, and since then it's been ideling down around 500rpm's and feeling really rough. We have put maybe 100 miles on it in the last 3 weeks and yesterday it just flat died at a stoplight and would not for the life of it start back up...in rush hour, in the snow none the less So i called the local ford dealer, explained to him what happened, also explained my buddy also has an 02 with a 6sp, just had his replaced with a grey cps, and got maybe 200 miles before his died, and had to swap it out for his spare international one to get it running (this was 8 months ago and he's had no trouble since). I also mentioned id' found online that the 6spd manual trucks have had some issues with injector #8 going bad and not firing with the new grey cps. He told me, the only way to find out was to hook it up to his diagnostics machine which was a $250 fee i had to pay up front. If it was the CPS they'd cover the fee, but if any other error codes come up, i pay the feel, so the fact that i'm having this hard start issue when warm, i'm stuck paying the fee....and on top of that, they want me to put my spare cps in, drive it down there, and THEN in the parking lot, change it out to the grey CPS they installed because they can only check it with the one they put in, even though the truck wont start....i LOVE my ford, but man do i HATE Western Slope Ford in Grand Junction, CO
He told me, the only way to find out was to hook it up to his diagnostics machine which was a $250 fee i had to pay up front. man do i HATE Western Slope Ford in Grand Junction, CO
I guess. Running a diagnostics is usually just an hour's labor, which generally runs about $100.
I have the 6-speed as well and have switched back and forth between the grey and black CPS many times over the last year. As far as power goes, I don't notice a difference. So if my #8 is having issues with the grey one, I don't notice it. The only running differences I notice is that the engine is quieter and smoother with the black one. But, I get 2.5mpg worse mileage with the black one. So, I have stuck with the grey one. Ford put it in a year ago, and it's been fine.
__________________
2001 F-350 Crew Cab XLT PSD 4x4, Long Bed, 6-speed, 3.73, Manual Transfer, Power TTT Mirrors, 122k miles.
1989 Toyota 4x4 xtracab SR5 V6, Beat to heck with 200k+ miles and still running strong.
I gave up and dropped at the Dealer yesterday afternoon, it started up ok in the 45 degree weather but hesitated at first with only a few cylinders catching then all of em fired up. I drove it down there, parked it, went in side and met with the advisor, he asked me to pull it forward, and i couldn't get the truck started again. I"ll let you guys know what they find out next week, just can't afford to have a truck not running and since no one here could really pinpoint what it may be, i figured it was worth the $225 diagnostics fee rather than start throwing money at good parts that aren't broken.
OK, dealer just called, here's the deal, i've got 3 leaky injector o-rings as well as an IPR valve that had a leaky oring. He recommends replacing all 8 orings, and the valve which costs $1,500, because it's 11 hours in labor. I asked if i should replace the injectors while i'm in there and he said he wouldn't bother, he's got a 2 7.3's both with stock injectors and one with 269K miles. He did suggest i replace the glow plugs while i'm in there and get rid of the napa glow plug relay because it was getting really hot, to the point it was starting to smoke. The total for the relay and plugs was around $300. He said he ran the international relay and lasted about a year, and he's back to the ford mastercraft relay and it's been 2 years and still going strong. The other option he said he would recommend is the BG Injector flush, it's roughly $150, and they pour a solvant in the tank, and run the truck at high idle for 30 min or so to flush everything out. He said it works great and he gained almost 2mpg more on his trucks and better throttle response.
He also said DO NOT SELL that 7.3, the only reason he has a job is because of all the 6.0L's he's working on So what do you guys think? I am laid off so money is tight, and i do have some time, but is this going to be a project that's over my head? He said there's a certain way you need to drain the HPOP and it's a rather complex job.
I guess it is a question of how comfortable you feel working on it. You can find the o rings for the injectors at international for about 75 bucks. There are write-ups on doing it on this site. Since you are on a budget you might just ohm out the glow plugs to see if you have any bad ones. I would see where you stand after replacing the o rings on the injectors. You may not have a problem with the ipr and you don't have to remove the hpop to replace it or service the o rings on it. Good luck and there is always a lot of help on here.
Here are some notes when I did glow plugs. I have not done injectors work on mine.
ZD11 Motorcraft glow plug is best
1. Disconnect the batteries
2. Clean up the valve covers with some mean green before removal. Wash down with H20.
3. Disconnect map sensor and any other electrical wires that might get in the way. Intercooler tubes should also come off (cover holes). Also, take off the heater hose brackets on the valve cover two bolts. To remove them take a screwdriver and pry up from the bottom.
4. Remove the intake tubing up to the turbocharger inlet and cover the holes.
5. Unbolt the valve covers-the only difficult bolts to reach are the ones in the back by the firewall. Patience and flexibility will help you get them out. On the passenger side: The oil fill tube unscrews counterclockwise. (This makes it easier to get the valve cover out.) 6. Disconnect the glow plug electrical connection. If you are replacing the harness and valve cover disconnect the injector wires at the injector.
7. With a deep 10 mm socket and 1/4 inch wrench with an extension, lossen the glow plug.
8. Get a small diameter vacuum line 6-8 inches. Slip this over the end of the glow plug to remove. Make sure it fits tight over the end of the glow plug. If you try to undo the glow plug all the way with a socket it will get hung up on the rocker arm and you can't get your socket out. Don't drop one in the abysses.
9. Drop new glow plug into the hole using vacuum tube, spin into place by hand if possible, and then use socket to tighten.
10. Torque specs:
Glow plugs: 124 inch pounds or 14NM
Valve cover bolts: 97 inch pounds or 11NM
Injector hold down bolts: 120 inch pounds or 14nm
rocker arm pedestal bolts to 20 ft-lbs
11. Put the UVC connector back onto the glow plug.
12. Repeat for other 7 cylinders.
13. Check UVC harness for stripped insulation/loose connections/etc... and replace if necessary. Also make sure no wires are touching any moving parts.
14. Make sure all electrical connectors are connected before putting the valve cover back on. May be a good idea to ohm out I to c and glow plug to ground before putting back on the valve cover. The pins will be arranged like this:
G - G - I - I - C - I - I - G - G
G = glow plug
I = Injector return
C = Injector common feed
You should measure .5 - 2 ohms between G and ground, and around 3.5-5 ohms between I and C.
OK, dealer just called, here's the deal, i've got 3 leaky injector o-rings as well as an IPR valve that had a leaky oring. He recommends replacing all 8 orings, and the valve which costs $1,500, because it's 11 hours in labor. I asked if i should replace the injectors while i'm in there and he said he wouldn't bother, he's got a 2 7.3's both with stock injectors and one with 269K miles. He did suggest i replace the glow plugs while i'm in there and get rid of the napa glow plug relay because it was getting really hot, to the point it was starting to smoke. The total for the relay and plugs was around $300. He said he ran the international relay and lasted about a year, and he's back to the ford mastercraft relay and it's been 2 years and still going strong. The other option he said he would recommend is the BG Injector flush, it's roughly $150, and they pour a solvant in the tank, and run the truck at high idle for 30 min or so to flush everything out. He said it works great and he gained almost 2mpg more on his trucks and better throttle response.
He also said DO NOT SELL that 7.3, the only reason he has a job is because of all the 6.0L's he's working on So what do you guys think? I am laid off so money is tight, and i do have some time, but is this going to be a project that's over my head? He said there's a certain way you need to drain the HPOP and it's a rather complex job.
I'm not sure how they can tell that it has leaking injector o-rings AND leaking IPR o-rings, as the tests can't differentiate leaky IPR o-rings from a bad HPOP very well. He's giving you good advice about not worrying about replacing the injectors, but his injector flush deal is way too high. You can do the same thing by draining the fuel filter and refilling with Seafoam (available at about any parts store) and running the engine. I've done injector o-rings, one side each on two different Saturdays in less than 11 hours total time, including running to the dealer for a replacement o-ring set, so I'd say they're high on that too.
He's also wrong on there being a difference between an International GPR and a Ford one in a Motorcraft box. They're IDENTICAL, down to the International number stamped on the bracket. His difference in service was just the luck of the draw.
If you're reasonably handy, you can change injector o-rings and glow plugs, as well as put new o-rings on the IPR (it's probably fine otherwise, so just get the o-ring kit from either International or Powerstrokeshop.com.) I found that the online Ford places had slightly better prices for injector o-rings and glow plugs than Int'l.
You'll need a deep 1-1/8" socket for the IPR, and a u-joint and a couple of short extensions for the back bolts on the valve covers. A short pry bar to get the injectors out helps. I use a brake adjuster tool. You should also have a way of sucking oil and fuel out of the cylinders to prevent hydrolocking after you reinstall the injectors. You should also roll the engine over with the glow plugs out to insure you get it the oil out.
tbpower's instructions and links are good info.
You can do it and save a ton of $ over what the dealer is wanting to charge you.
If you run into any snags, be sure and post questions here.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
), AIS, 
So i called the local ford dealer, explained to him what happened, also explained my buddy also has an 02 with a 6sp, just had his replaced with a grey cps, and got maybe 200 miles before his died, and had to swap it out for his spare international one to get it running (this was 8 months ago and he's had no trouble since). I also mentioned id' found online that the 6spd manual trucks have had some issues with injector #8 going bad and not firing with the new grey cps. He told me, the only way to find out was to hook it up to his diagnostics machine which was a $250 fee i had to pay up front. If it was the CPS they'd cover the fee, but if any other error codes come up, i pay the feel, so the fact that i'm having this hard start issue when warm, i'm stuck paying the fee....and on top of that, they want me to put my spare cps in, drive it down there, and THEN in the parking lot, change it out to the grey CPS they installed because they can only check it with the one they put in, even though the truck wont start....i LOVE my ford, but man do i HATE Western Slope Ford in Grand Junction, CO 
rather than start throwing money at good parts that aren't broken.
So what do you guys think? I am laid off so money is tight, and i do have some time, but is this going to be a project that's over my head? He said there's a certain way you need to drain the HPOP and it's a rather complex job.
Linear Mode
