HELP Coolant is green!!!

[weitekampt]

Need some help. I did a complete flush in December using the proper flush with distilled water just like smokey tells us to. I had the water pump go bad 4,000 miles ago. Had it taken care of with the warranty which was good. But I noticed that the color was a bit green when I got it back. They added some kind of coolant addative #VC-8 which is a ford addative. I didn't think that you needed an addative with the gold. He said that the addative was blue and it turned the normal gold coolant to a greenish color. I trusted the guy because I spoke with the diesel tech and he said that in his continuing training (he has been a tech for 15 years) they told him to keep using the addative no matter what color the antifreeze is.

Anyway, I put in a 203 stat this morning and drained the coolant a bit and noticed it was really green. I mean it looks like they just threw in the old green stuff.

How have you guys handled the service manager when dealing with a complete flush from the dealership to correct the problem? I HAVE to get this fixed. Would a machine from teh dealership completely get the old out and the new gold in. I would think if they pumped it out, that would be pretty effective. I am not totally opposed to doing it myself again, but what a pain in the butt! What do you do with all the leftover. I still have it in my garage!

Any advise on this quickly would be great. I have to head to town in about an hour and I am taking a sample with me so I can show him what I am dealing with.

Thanks for any help! I have never dealt with a complaint like this before.

[CPSS]

Sounds like the dealership removed your gold coolant and replaced it with the "old fashioned" green coolant that requires the SCA additive and testing. I don't agree that the gold coolant needs to have the Ford additive. That was the advantage of the gold coolant, no more testing.

I'm sure Smokey and Gooch will report in shortly and give you an earfull. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Gooch]

The VC-8 is blue. And the Gold (yellow) mixed with the blue would make green. So all that would account for your greenish coolant.

It's hard to tell from what you posted if the old coolant they flushed was green or gold. If they didn't get all the green out this would account for the greenish coolant too.

[CPSS]

But do you think the pint of additive would change the color that much?

[Gooch]

1 pint doesn't change the color a whole lot. But if they added the 4 pints of blue VC-8 that they normally would with the green stuff (per Onwer's Manual), and didn't get out all the old green stuff (if that's what was in there prior to flushing), then this would account for the greenish tint in the Gold. I'm still trying to figure out what color they flushed and what color he had the water pump failure with?

[ QUOTE ]
I trusted the guy because I spoke with the diesel tech and he said that in his continuing training (he has been a tech for 15 years) they told him to keep using the addative no matter what color the antifreeze is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of the 2002 Diesel Supplement.....

"Do no use this additive with the yellow-colored coolant meeting Ford specification WSS-M97B51-A1"

However, some Tech's know that the Gold has a less aggressive SCA package and it won't contain the Molybdate inhibitor and other buffers that the conventional Green/SCA mixuture did. They're probably also aware that other manufacturers (like CAT) are requiring additional SCA be added to the Gold for added protection. So in their wisdom, they're adding additional VC-8 to the Gold. Not saying it's right or wrong, only that we've seen some Techs doing that.

[weitekampt]

Sorry for the late return, but the coolant that was in the system was gold. It was gold from the factory and I replaced it with fresh gold. So what you are saying is that adding this blue stuff will make it a light green then. Makes sense. I didn't know it was blue. As long as it doesn't do any harm to the motor I really don't mind. They actually tried talking me into going back to the green stuff since I change my coolant at 40-50k. I said no thanks and I will pay a few more bucks for the new and improved stuff.

Also, why doesn't ford put the addative into the new vehicles? I asked that to the service manager and he got really defensive. Just a question somebody may know.

[Larry M]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the late return, but the coolant that was in the system was gold. It was gold from the factory and I replaced it with fresh gold. So what you are saying is that adding this blue stuff will make it a light green then. Makes sense. I didn't know it was blue. As long as it doesn't do any harm to the motor I really don't mind. They actually tried talking me into going back to the green stuff since I change my coolant at 40-50k.

[/ QUOTE ]

All I can say is that dealership screwed up and if it was me I would want just the Gold w/o any of the extra stuff in there and good luck determining how to maintain this "witches brew" you now have in there. Just make sure you find some good authoritative procedures on how to maintain this since I know of none. I put up my chemistry set over 40 yrs ago and you have to realize that the Gold has basically an HOAT package in it and the stuff they put in is based on Nitrite and Mob. along with a bunch of various buffers, etc. and I and I don't know of anyone here that can tell you the potential interactions of this mixture when heated and subjected to explosive cavitation mixing. If Ford or Chrylser has thought that a higher nitrite or Mob package was required in their HOAT coolant then I would have thought they who have all the PHDs etc. would have specified those requirements, which they didn't. We're talking chemicals here and they can react with each other even in minute quantities and change the overall chemical properites of the base solution.

[ QUOTE ]
I said no thanks and I will pay a few more bucks for the new and improved stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just realize the base coolant is the same and now you have a mix of the "new and improved stuff" SCA in the gold as you've referred to it and the previous SCA from the low silicate green which you seem not to want to go back too so I'm not sure what you've gained or lost in the current situation you're in.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, why doesn't ford put the addative into the new vehicles? I asked that to the service manager and he got really defensive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Human nature makes people very defensive and vocal when they are caught in a situation where the real answer does not agree with what they might have already said or done and since the dealership screwed up their attitude doesn't surprise me and I bet they are hoping you are a possible uniformed consumer that simply lets the issue drop and doesn't make them eat their mistake.

Good Luck and I'm sure you'll get differing opinions than what I've expressed above, but the above is my honest opinion and what I would do, but you'll have to ultimately have to decide what to actually do in the end.


Larry, keeper of the <font color="red"> New revised </font><font color="blue">"little secrets" </font> CLICK HERE

[Gooch]

[ QUOTE ]
By LarryM:

I put up my chemistry set over 40 yrs ago and you have to realize that the Gold has basically an HOAT package in it and the stuff they put in is based on Nitrite and Mob. along with a bunch of various buffers, etc. and I and I don't know of anyone here that can tell you the potential interactions of this mixture when heated and subjected to explosive cavitation mixing. If Ford or Chrylser has thought that a higher nitrite or Mob package was required in their HOAT coolant then I would have thought they who have all the PHDs etc. would have specified those requirements, which they didn't. We're talking chemicals here and they can react with each other even in minute quantities and change the overall chemical properites of the base solution.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Explosive cavitation mixing"? "Chemistry set"? "Potential interactions"? "React in minute quantities"? "PHD's"?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] I think I'm going to bust a gut! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]


Relax Larry. If you add SCA to the G-05 all you'll get is....G-05 with SCA. Depending on the amount of SCA added, the worst thing you might get is an over-dose of inhibitors or a reduction in the useful life of the G-05. That's all. Sorry, no "explosion" or "witch's brew" that you think might disolve the radiator. So put your chemistry set away. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

BTW, if you read Ford's coolant bulletin, you'll find that they don't recommend servicing the Gold with SCA. However, they do make an exception for the CAT 3126E in their F-650/750. So apparently it's ok to add, and that diesel requires more of it.

Really all your drivel is moot, as I already posted this from his 2002 Diesel Supplement....

"Do not use this additive with the yellow-colored coolant meeting Ford specification WSS-M97B51-A1."

So if Ford added SCA to the Gold and onetoughdiesel doesn't want it in there, then he just needs to have them flush it and do it again, or at least test it to make sure it's ok.

Larry, I'm not surprised you didn't comment about onetoughdiesel losing his water pump on the silicate-containing Gold. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Larry M]

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*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, no comment [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Gooch]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, no comment

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you.

After posting stuff like, "Explosive cavitation mixing" I was hoping you realized how ridiculous your comments about coolant really are.

[Larry M]

[ QUOTE ]
*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]

Gooch, you might as well stop responding to my posts since I rarely respond to yours and can only see what I see as your posts and that is the above. Quite frankly I'm tired of the the snide, personal attacks and comments against me and other long time members who are trying to give their honest and considered opinions in an effort to help answer a poster's question or concern which when they are counter to your opinions you choose to attack the poster and not the actual techncial information in those posts. I have for sometime simply chosen only to converse with the person with the actual question or concern and I would recommend you do the same and leave this personal stuff alone since it has no place here and won't engage in your shenanigans and self serving IMO posts anymore. There was no need to respond to my posts here, you only need to express your technical opinion to the person with the question.

I doubt this will happen, but "hope springs eternal" as the old saying goes.

Have a good day and weekend and I'm thru with this thread and if the thread's originator wants anymore of my comments then a PM is the best way which a lot of this is done anyway to prevent these unhelpful exchanges in the public forums [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Larry

[Gooch]

Larry, are you trolling?

Because your last two posts have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. They are simply antagonizing, off-topic, personalized drivel used to spin this coolant discussion into oblivion (which is probably what you want). But sorry, I ain't biting. So that leaves just you who's gone down the path of "personal attacks", as evidenced by your last post.

You're one of our leaders here that members look to for solid information. And you make it a point to constantly engage in coolant discussions. So if you can't take the heat for posting such ridiculous statements, or don't have the confidence or knowledge to explain them, then don't post. And if you honestly want to help members with their coolant concerns, then post some facts instead of misguided opinion.

Let me know when you're ready to roll up your coolant sleeves and explain your comments like, "explosive cavitation mixing".

BTW, your whole "ignore" thing is a joke. Obviously you always read and respond.

[armchairengineer]

Adding the SCA to the Gold coolant is beneficial and extends it's life.

The CAT six's have lots more internal cooling jacket area and hence more metal to protect which is why it requires the SCA. More wetted surface area in relation the volume of coolant.

It's not necessary to add it to the Gold on your PSD but it won't hurt. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The maintanence regimin would be the same that you would use for Gold.

[RobertJohn]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
ROTF LMAO......Ladies and Gentlemen.......Leeeeet's geeeet reeeeady to RUMBLE !
In the gold corner we have LarryM from Va. wearing his moderator's badge
In the red corner we have Gooch from Alaska....he must be wearing something cause it's cold in Alaska.

Remember, this is suppose to be an adult auto sight so let's keep the biting to a menimum..

DING DING DING

Round 1....

[RobertJohn]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif[/img]

AND LET'S NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE SPELLING !

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img]