High Pressure Oil Pump / Top End Oil Change - Page 2 - Diesel Forum

txfxl · 11-27-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimTJr

That guy is a freeking idiot, how can he influence so many people with gibberish? When you change your oil, if you start it and run for any time at all, the "Dirty" oil in the HPOP reservior, flows down into the pan, and mixes with the other 13-15 qts you put in clean. Really, changing that little amount, makes no difference, you better remember to change the oil in the heads too, (Pull them off, drain and flush heads, remove all 8 injectors and drain too).......

awesome

teesh · 11-27-2009, 08:49 PM

I sucked out the quart of oil from the HPOP reservoir since its just that much more old oil I could get out. It was easy with a vacuum pump.

But, I had a hard time believing that once the motor was fired up, that all the oil wasn't being mixed, like some here are saying. That's why I only removed it the first time and didn't continue to remove more from the reservoir after running the truck.

But I was curious what others were seeing when removing it multiple times.

knoweigh · 11-27-2009, 08:59 PM

Good thread

but yes, the oil does/HAS to mix.
No way around it.
Let's put it this way,,,,,,(laymens terms) IF it didn't mix, do you not think that Ford would've put a "service" interval in there for the "HPOP OIL CHANGE"?
(or did I just miss that? as I'll admit I've never read my service manual entirely)

c'mon people.

Anyhow, yes, can't hurt to change it and YES I have done it in the past and will continue to maybe once every cpl years, and YES it most likely is actually better for your injectors.

But to say that it never has mixed?......that would mean that about 98% of the 7.3's on the road today have original oil going to their injectors.

LOL, and $4-$5k for injector replacement?..? ...........am I missing something here?
Can't ya get a set of 8 for under $1000?

Don't get me wrong, he knows WAY more about these engines than I ever will, I'm just not sure that all his videos are completely forthcoming.
Like, maybe that vid in particular is more a "pro-long" sponsored video? Maybe not, but nevertheless, it doesn't seem like too many on this forum anyhow agree with this HPOP oil change theory.

lance1955 · 11-27-2009, 09:07 PM

I too watched the video and was like yeah right. All I can add is after I did this service and have been ever since my truck starts and run a heck of a lot better. But I only change it once now with every oil change. Call it what you want but sure is funny how, just like in his video my oil was in about the same condition. Sure it was black....I guess if you try it you just have to see if you think its worth it. I found that a boat oil pump works great for this application, the tube us the right size and I get about a quart out.

Dirtcheap · 11-28-2009, 04:11 PM

i would think that if the oil mixes ( at the rate it is suppossed to) the "top" oil would lighten up after a fresh oil change..i wouldnt go so far as to say he is an idiot but, he is very entertaining

black'scursion · 11-28-2009, 07:14 PM

AW GEEZ - not THIS thread again!!

**djbrown** · 11-29-2009, 01:33 AM

did the same thing, mine was BLACK, it started to get a little better after the 3d time i could have done it more should have done it more. i was woundering how the oil returns to the pan, i noticed that it holds the oil under the plug, but if you put more than a qt of oil in the top of the hpop then it bleeds down to the pan. so is there a vally under the hpop plug that holds oil, and when this valley fills up it overflows to the oil pan? if so wouldnt the dirty oil being the heavest stay towards the bottom?

just thinking it so i threw it out, sounds crazy

any one have a pic of this area, so we all can see whats under the hpop plug?

JimTJr · 11-29-2009, 10:11 AM

The path of oil flow is from the Low pressure oil pump, (IN THE PAN, WHERE ALL THE CLEAN OIL IS) to the reservoir, the "Tank" above the HPOP. The Hpop feeds out of there, and into the heads, through the injectors, there are "Spouts" on the injectors that spit oil out while the truck is running, this flows out of the injector onto the head where the rockers are at, through the return "Drains" back into the pan,,,,, pretty simple and shows that the CLEAN oil get's into the HPOP pretty quickly.

Now someone try to explain to me how the oil in the HPOP system is isolated in anyway?

One thing, Ford did design the HPOP to use UNFILTERED oil from the LPOP, this may likely be because the flow through the filter might starve the HPOP system? Who knows, But I found this out from a friend who is very knowledgeable about HPOPs, and also found when my IPR stuck, because of a piece of debris from a blown turbo seal. (The filter would have stopped that, correct?)

catch&release · 11-29-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimTJr

Now someone try to explain to me how the oil in the HPOP system is isolated in anyway?

Now someone try to explain why the oil in the reservoir is vastly different in appearance and color than the oil in the pan, after running new oil through the system for a couple of days.

I would assume that if it does circulate at the rate that it's supposed to, that there would not be a perceivable difference between the two........but there is.

And "it isn't" isn't a valid answer here.

Perhaps for some if that's what they experienced when doing this change, but for others there has definitely been a difference.

rubherchicken · 11-29-2009, 12:08 PM

Ok So this method may be old or wrong in ways I do not wven know about but I do know is gasoline engines that were not serviced properly they build carbon and clog up oil gallys and you end up with stuck lifters ect. I was taught to run a mixture of fresh clean oil, ATF and some WD 40 through the engine, obviously mainly engine oil then a quart or so of ATf and then a few cups of WD $0, it would really clean out the engine build up and clear out the lifters. CAN WE DO THIS WITH OUR DIESELS? seems like a good way to clean out all of the injectors and all of the oil ports , and since clean oil is the ticket with the 7.3 it seems like a good way to go. any thoughts?

pristine · 11-29-2009, 12:32 PM

IMHO, changing the oil in the HPOP is a waste of time. My truck is ten years old and I have never changed the HPOP oil. A few years ago, I took a drop of oil from the HPOP and the dip stick and put it on a piece of plastic. I could see no difference in the color between the two. If someone who is bothered by the HPOP oil, then go ahead and change it. In your mind it will feel better. However, if one wants to prove this conclusively, send two samples to Blackstone for comparrison. Then let everyone know the results. My .02
jgr

JimTJr · 11-29-2009, 01:56 PM

No, I would not try that. You would very likely get foaming, and foaming won't mesh well with our injection system. (It won't hydraulicly work with our injectors then.)
I would just rely on regular oil changes, good quality oil, and fuel, and planned maintenance to insure out engines and injection systems live a long life....

**klhansen** · 11-29-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pristine

However, if one wants to prove this conclusively, send two samples to Blackstone for comparrison.

I believe that's already been done, and IIRC, there was no significant difference. You could search for it in this forum.

The oil flows into the HPOP reservoir thru a check valve called the "quick fill check valve" that sends unfiltered oil to the HPOP res immediately, then when pressure builds in the HPOP res, the check valve closes and the res is fed filtered oil thru a standpipe and into the top of the res. The HPOP draws from the lower levels of the res (otherwise, the engine would stall shortly after starting from the HPOP starving for oil). And as others have pointed out, the oil discharges thru the injectors into the valve cover area.

Bottom line, if changing the HPOP res oil makes you feel good, go for it, but don't get A.R. over it. Your engine isn't going to grenade if you don't change it.

If you believe everything that the Powerstrokehelp guy says, you'll be led astray on some stuff. He's just flat WRONG on some of his videos, and his voice is just plain annoying, IMO.

pristine · 11-29-2009, 04:17 PM

klhansen, I totally agree with your last.
jgr

catch&release · 11-29-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klhansen

I believe that's already been done, and IIRC, there was no significant difference. You could search for it in this forum.

What was done was.......someone took a sample of their oil pan oil, and a sample of their HPOP oil when they did an oil change.

I would like to see two samples taken by someone that has never done the HPOP change, and take the samples a day or two AFTER your lower oil change. I.E..........change your lower oil. Run the truck for two days. Oil should be the same in the HPOP as the pan by now with all the circulation that's supposed to happen. However, when you take these samples, they will look totally different......not the same as they should. These are the samples that should be sent to Blackstone for analysis. The one from the oil pan will be a dark amber color, and the one from the HPOP will be a nasty dark greenish black sample. Obviously look different, but you're right.....an analysis should be done to determine how much different from a component and structure standpoint.