HPOP issues!?

[pokey1]

I have viewed the numerous post relating to HPOP issues and this site has been very helpful. Unfortunatly I feel I need to post to get some opinions on my situation.

I have a 02 f350 7.3 with 130k miles. Truck had issue shutting off for no apparent reason then restarting after cooling. I did all the simple sensors, etc. but problem reoccurred. Finally caved and took it to dealer - they have a good diesel mechanic. His diagnosis was a HPOP problem and recommended replacement. I had a hard time with the $2300 they wanted for job so I order parts and replaced it myself. Used a "remaunfactured" unit. Install went very smooth and truck has been running great for a month.

Last night the check engine light came on, truck gradually lost power, i made it home but engine then stopped running - almost like it was running out of fuel. I could hear an unussual groan from the top center engine area and my fear was the new HPOP was dying. Now vehicle cranks over but doesnt fire.

Called pump manuf. and checked a couple things they suggested.... tighten pump drive gear and check to be sure getting fuel - all OK. The maunfacturer of the pump has actually been very helpful thus far.

I purchased a code reader but I'm not getting any codes so thats no help.

My gut tells me the HPOP is the issue - my only options seems to be replacing the pump AGAIN. Any other suggestions would be great!

Sorry for long post......

[RIStroker2000]

not much help from me.. maybe a fuel flow problem, or air in lines..or in tank filter clogged.. someone with more knoledge will chime in.. i will follow as am interested.. your new HPOP shouldnt have failed, possibility but doubt it

[BTBBT]

It sort of sounds like the hpop died but I would think that would trigger a code for low hpop pressure. Do you have a way to check or monitor the HP oil while cranking? that would rule out if your hpop is still working or not.

[pokey1]

Thanks for the input... I dont know of any way to check the HPOP without some sort of diagnostic equip. thats more high tech than the handheld scanner I have. Does anyone have a method to test pump?

[Excavator]

Originally Posted by pokey1

Thanks for the input... I dont know of any way to check the HPOP without some sort of diagnostic equip. thats more high tech than the handheld scanner I have. Does anyone have a method to test pump?

FROM SWAMPS DIESEL SITE


How to check if my HPOP is good
Before we help you decide on a style of injector, it is very important that we (both) know how good (or bad) your HPOP is.

There are 2 ways to measure the oil pump's performance.

If you have access to a scantool, hook it up to the trucks OBD connector, and go to the "datastream"...scroll through the sensor values, until you find ICP (or injection control pressure)...this is your HPOP's "oil pressure".

***NOTE: if you are running any kind of "box" such as the "Edge EZ" or the "Banks Six Gun" you either have to remove the aftermarket jumper harness/plug at the ICP sensor, and reconnect the factory harness by itself. If you are running a home made "10k mod", etc...which plugs/taps into the ICP sensor wires (or connector pins), you will have to remove it as well, or proceed with getting the parts together to run the mechanical gauge, as the scantool will not receive accurate data from the ICP sensor if its signal is being modified from any one of thes "ICP foolers".

To test the HPOP's output, you will be looking on the scantool for the line labeled "ICP" and it's units should be in psi not volts. Some scantools measure ICP in kPa (kilopascals) which you can convert to psi after you take your measurement in kPa.

1kpa = 0.145psi

(for example 19,310kPa = 2800 psi)

Put your chip in its' highest setting, and go out on the interstate (while having someone watch the ICP value on the datastream) and start at about 60mph...

FLOOR the pedal, and stay in it, 100% from ~60-90mph...what you're likely to see (on the scantool) is that the ICP will spike up rather quickly, to 2800-3000psi or so, and then the longer you stay in the pedal...the ICP will slowly drop and drop and drop...the ICP will eventually stabilize (stop dropping).

WHERE the ICP levels off can be some indication as to the condition of your HPOP.

If your truck can maintain 2800+psi then you are one of the FEW folks that have a terrific HPOP.

I would estimate that 90% of the Power Strokes can only maintain ~2200(+/- 200)psi of HPOP pressure, or ICP...5% are above 2600, the other 5% are below 1900psi...


depending on how low (or high) of ICP you are able to maintain will greatly affect which model of injector I would recommend.

If you don't have access to a scantool, then go to your local hydraulic supply house, and have them make you up a mechanical gauge. You might spend $60 or so on high pressure hose, fittings, and a quality 0-3500psi liquid filled gauge....but having this hose available for future diagnostics might be more valuable than you think.

The hose which you will need will need to be about 40" long, rated for (minimum) 3000psi working pressure (12k psi burst rating!) with the gauge on one end, and a #6 female JIC swivel fitting crimped onto the other.

You will also need an individual fitting to screw into the head to go from the head to the hose.

This single fitting will be a 90degree fitting # 5 "male boss" (sometimes called # 5 o-ring) on one end of the 90, and a # 6 male JIC on the other end of the 90. Our local hydraulic shop would label such a fitting as 5MB-6MJ90

"JIC" is nothing special...it's just 'hydraulic talk' for a 37degree flare fitting...standard hydraulic stuff here...nothing rare by any stretch.

Looking at the top of (either) cylinder head, you'll see the factory stainless braided oil lines (one to each head) then you'll see a few bronze colored plugs... (Engine off, of course) Using a 5/8" wrench, remove any one of the bronze plugs, and install the 90deg fitting into the hole. (save the plug for reinstallation , after testing). and the O-rings are reusable, unless brittle, cracked, etc...

The single 90deg fitting will have a "jamb nut" on the O-ring side...screw the fitting into the head, "aiming" the 90 away from the turbo, intercooler pipes, etc...and then tighten the jamb nut, to "squish" the O-ring also locking the 90 from "spinning" around as you attach the swivel end of the hose to the 90. No sealants, loctite, or teflon tape are needed on "JIC" or O-ring fittings...and don't overtighten them...usually about 180degrees with a wrench past finger tight...check for leaks prior to getting too far from home...

run the hose, away from moving parts, electrically conductive junk (like batteries, glow plug relay, starter relays, etc) ..and just route the hose up through the cowl toward the windshield...for short term testing purposes, we just lay the gauge up under a windsheild wiper, and go drive...testing it just like I describes previously...chip in the highest setting, floor the truck, etc....

If you can maintain 2800+ psi of ICP, then any injector 250cc's and under will perform exceptionally well.

If you can maintain 2400psi then that's not bad, not great either.

2200psi is mediocre, and full performance from any injector will not be achieved with that HPOP, though power WILL go up with nearly any injector, driveability (excessive smoke) might be an issue.

If you cannot maintain 1900psi, you might seriously consider an aftermarket dual HPOP system, or our Gen3 HPOP. Nearly any larger injector is going to make the truck feel sluggish, and smoke excessively.

[Absolute]

Just a thought , but does your code reader support the 7.3? Most don't, I got AE and it does but I paid extra for the ford bundle. I bet there are codes, your reader probably can't get.

[pokey1]

Originally Posted by Absolute

Just a thought , but does your code reader support the 7.3? Most don't, I got AE and it does but I paid extra for the ford bundle. I bet there are codes, your reader probably can't get.

I'm using an ACTRON CP9180 - from what retailer said it will read codes for this vehicle..... but I cant say I'm 100% sure. Their web site does not have any clear information regarding compatability. Does anyone have experience with this unit? From Excavators post option #1 sure seems like the easiest method to test HPOP but I can't seem to be able to find the options to test sensor values. Thanks

[Excavator]

You need a Powerstroke freindly scanner such as Autoenginuity to scan these trucks. Option 2 is by far the cheapest and best way to test HPOP

[pokey1]

Originally Posted by Excavator

You need a Powerstroke freindly scanner such as Autoenginuity to scan these trucks. Option 2 is by far the cheapest and best way to test HPOP

Thanks for the info. I just ordered AE scanner/ford bundle. I will return this cheapo scanner to store tomorrow. Excavator - I agree the 2nd option may be the test the HPOP but I figure owning two vehicles (F350 w/120k & Excursion w/180k), both with the 7.3, I will get my money back using the scanner to address issues in the years to come. Scanner stuff should arrive by mid week so I'll let you know what I find.

[Excavator]

Yep I also use AE and it does tell all.
You want to watch the ICP and the duty cycle.
AE takes some learning but you can jump right in and check the ICP.
Most trouble people have is not configuring it correctly to connect to the Powerstrokes

[pokey1]

Ok so I finally got the AE software and figured out the basics.... the three codes I'm getting are P1280, P1212, & P1211 which all appear to suggest concerns with low pressure at the ICP. Does this confirm my hunch that the new HPOP died? I will try to research the codes a bit more - any input would help. Thanks!

[pokey1]

Contacted the manufacturer of the HPOP I installed a month ago and discussed my findings with the AE diagnostic software. Had them send me another unit. Installed it yesterday and truck started and seems to run well. So it seems my suspicion of a fualty replacement pump appears to be correct. Now I have to return the original unit to manufacturer for their evaluation as to whether or not the pump was the problem...... I'll be interested to hear their findings. Hopefully this second pump will last for more than a month!