ICP Confusion help - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the '99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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ICP Confusion help

I have a crank no start condition.


Replaced Fuel Pump and CPS. No Start.


Disconnected the wire from the ICP to see if it would start. It did not. But the disconnect causes Code P1280 which is an ICP low condition so I think this is a no start condition. If I connect the wire back up I can clear the code and does not show up again unless I disconnect.


So I am confused......After many searches disconnecting the ICP is standard in troubleshooting. But if my 2002 trows this code.....how could it start.




I am missing something here. Appreciate any help




(One more thing is I think I will replace it since I have oil present in the connecter)

2002 F250 Stock PSD Crew Cab SRW
1998 HR Endeavor MH w/275 Cummins Diesel and MD3060 Allison 6 speed

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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 04:15 PM
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The truck should still run with a P1280--ICP Circuit Out of Range Low--when the ICP is unplugged.
It is a common diagnostic to unplug the ICP because a default signal is substituted and the truck still runs...I think it was 715 base for me but I think some guys report it defaults to maybe 750.

If the P1280 only comes on when the ICP is disconnected then its not telling you anything, is it?
Seems that if it threw that code with the ICP plugged in then it would be indicating a problem.

If the ICP has oil in the pigtail then the ICP needs replacing and the pigtail is usually found to require replacement as well.
It depends on how long the oil has been in contact with the pigtail. If the wire insulation has any signs of oil penetration and degradation then its a sure bet it needs to be replaced but I found just a small trace of oil in my connector, just enough to give it a sheen under flashlight, and I gave it a spray of electric cleaner, dried it off with air and dabbed some di-electric grease on the purple grommet and have not had problems since replacement of the ICP (Motorcraft ofcourse).

I wonder if you still have the old style ICP design? That is why I replaced the ones in my trucks...they were the old style with an aluminum type mushroom cap. Maryland DieselNick said it is a good practice to just replace those old ones because they will be failing due to age and he was right on the money...as usual.

Do you have a scanner? Even a ScanGauge-II can give you ICP/IPR readings.

No Start:

http://oregonfuelinjection.com/conte...diagnostic.pdf

.


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2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 160,000 miles.

NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, AIH Delete, ScanGauge II, AIC, 2002 Headlights, Bilstein 4600, Marinco Mod, Cupholder Upgrade, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin LTX


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2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 160,000 miles.

NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, Bilstein 5100, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball

Last edited by ArcticDriver; 03-19-2017 at 05:33 PM.
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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Artic driver for the quick response


So to end my confusion when you disconnect the line from the ICP it is normal for it to throw the P1280 code.


Ok the oil in the sensor was very noticeable and also in the harness connection. But I didn't see it going to the valley. I don't know if I have a new or old sensor. Probably original. will attach thumbnail.


I have an old Superchips tuner. I can read diagnostic codes but not things like HPOP pressure.


I need one......Any suggestions.


Oh do you have the PN of the new sensor since I am going to replace it since it is leaking slightly.
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2002 F250 Stock PSD Crew Cab SRW
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PREVIOUS TRUCK 97 F250 PSD 3.55 Draw-Tite Slider, pulling 2850RK Keystone Montana DIY Exhaust brake with TC Lockup
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 05:00 PM
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Do you have WTS light when keyed to "on" position?

Do you have tach movement when cranking?

Do you have fuel at the bowl?

Do you have oil on the dipstick?

Gunga galunga...gunga -- gunga galunga.

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99 F-250 CC 4x4 7.3L PSD ZF6 E99 CALI DELETE
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 05:24 PM
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Yep, you still have the earlier version in there and it should be swapped even if it wasn't showing oil...but I think they fail before they leak enough oil to get in the valley.

ICP Motorcraft P/N: F6TZ-9F838-A
And it would be tough to find a better price than Autonation:


ICP sensor, 1997-2003 7.3 (I.C.P.) : AutoNation Ford White Bear Lake | Parts & Accessories


And the one in the link is the new style and it does not require a crows foot to tighten.

.


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2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 160,000 miles.

NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, AIH Delete, ScanGauge II, AIC, 2002 Headlights, Bilstein 4600, Marinco Mod, Cupholder Upgrade, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin LTX


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2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 160,000 miles.

NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, Bilstein 5100, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball

Last edited by ArcticDriver; 03-19-2017 at 05:27 PM.
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by greenskeeper79 View Post
Do you have WTS light when keyed to "on" position?

Do you have tach movement when cranking?

Do you have fuel at the bowl?

Do you have oil on the dipstick?
No tach movement but that's normal for a 2002


Got fuel in bowl


oil good 1200 miles on it

2002 F250 Stock PSD Crew Cab SRW
1998 HR Endeavor MH w/275 Cummins Diesel and MD3060 Allison 6 speed

PREVIOUS TRUCK 97 F250 PSD 3.55 Draw-Tite Slider, pulling 2850RK Keystone Montana DIY Exhaust brake with TC Lockup
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ArcticDriver View Post
Yep, you still have the earlier version in there and it should be swapped even if it wasn't showing oil...but I think they fail before they leak enough oil to get in the valley.

ICP Motorcraft P/N: F6TZ-9F838-A
And it would be tough to find a better price than Autonation:


ICP sensor, 1997-2003 7.3 (I.C.P.) : AutoNation Ford White Bear Lake | Parts & Accessories


And the one in the link is the new style and it does not require a crows foot to tighten.

.
Thanks Artic Driver. I am going to order one but I don't think that's the problem. Looking like IPR maybe. I will take the sensor out tomorrow put rags aroung the hole and oil should shoot out if the IPR is working. Checked HPOP level....1 inch from top.


Maybe I can find a good scan tool.

2002 F250 Stock PSD Crew Cab SRW
1998 HR Endeavor MH w/275 Cummins Diesel and MD3060 Allison 6 speed

PREVIOUS TRUCK 97 F250 PSD 3.55 Draw-Tite Slider, pulling 2850RK Keystone Montana DIY Exhaust brake with TC Lockup
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by redtopman View Post
Thanks Artic Driver. I am going to order one but I don't think that's the problem. Looking like IPR maybe. I will take the sensor out tomorrow put rags aroung the hole and oil should shoot out if the IPR is working. Checked HPOP level....1 inch from top.


Maybe I can find a good scan tool.
Testing the IPR using that method does not provide any useful values for diagnosis. It sounds like a good way to make a mess.

A cheap but useful gadget is a ScanGauge-2.

It costs about $140 from Advance Auto and you can get 20% by ordering online. I have alot of Scottish blood and am a penny pincher but its worth every cent to me.

You can program it to read live ICP/IPR and several other metrics. Just not ECT and EGT because our 2002s do not have those sensors.


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2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 160,000 miles.

NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, AIH Delete, ScanGauge II, AIC, 2002 Headlights, Bilstein 4600, Marinco Mod, Cupholder Upgrade, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin LTX


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2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 160,000 miles.

NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, Bilstein 5100, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redtopman View Post
No tach movement but that's normal for a 2002


Got fuel in bowl


oil good 1200 miles on it
A guy just posted last week with a no-start that he had fuel in bowl so crossed fuel issue off the list. After eliminating other possibilities he decided to add a bit more diesel to his tank.

It winds up the pick-up foot in the fuel tank had broken (common issue) and even though he still had a 1/4 tank of fuel, it was too low and not getting picked up by the fuel pump.

So fuel in fuel bowl is not always a good indicator.


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2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 160,000 miles.

NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, AIH Delete, ScanGauge II, AIC, 2002 Headlights, Bilstein 4600, Marinco Mod, Cupholder Upgrade, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin LTX


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2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 160,000 miles.

NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, Bilstein 5100, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball
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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticDriver View Post
Testing the IPR using that method does not provide any useful values for diagnosis. It sounds like a good way to make a mess.

A cheap but useful gadget is a ScanGauge-2.

It costs about $140 from Advance Auto and you can get 20% by ordering online. I have alot of Scottish blood and am a penny pincher but its worth every cent to me.

You can program it to read live ICP/IPR and several other metrics. Just not ECT and EGT because our 2002s do not have those sensors.
Thanks I am used to making a mess. But will check that out.

2002 F250 Stock PSD Crew Cab SRW
1998 HR Endeavor MH w/275 Cummins Diesel and MD3060 Allison 6 speed

PREVIOUS TRUCK 97 F250 PSD 3.55 Draw-Tite Slider, pulling 2850RK Keystone Montana DIY Exhaust brake with TC Lockup
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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A guy just posted last week with a no-start that he had fuel in bowl so crossed fuel issue off the list. After eliminating other possibilities he decided to add a bit more diesel to his tank.

It winds up the pick-up foot in the fuel tank had broken (common issue) and even though he still had a 1/4 tank of fuel, it was too low and not getting picked up by the fuel pump.

So fuel in fuel bowl is not always a good indicator.
Good Point. Since I am retired and old I may take a few days to think about it. I have a Fuel gage and sensor coming in a couple of days so I will install it to rule out pump and tank issues. Dash mounted gage. I was going to wait until I got it running but based on what you said I will go ahead and install it so I know the tank, pump and lines are ok. With drain valve open it fills my drain pan in nothing flat so I doubt tank and lines is an issue. But to be safe I will make sure I have 45-80psi pressure to the filter.,

2002 F250 Stock PSD Crew Cab SRW
1998 HR Endeavor MH w/275 Cummins Diesel and MD3060 Allison 6 speed

PREVIOUS TRUCK 97 F250 PSD 3.55 Draw-Tite Slider, pulling 2850RK Keystone Montana DIY Exhaust brake with TC Lockup
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 09:55 PM
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Good Point. Since I am retired and old I may take a few days to think about it. I have a Fuel gage and sensor coming in a couple of days so I will install it to rule out pump and tank issues. Dash mounted gage. I was going to wait until I got it running but based on what you said I will go ahead and install it so I know the tank, pump and lines are ok. With drain valve open it fills my drain pan in nothing flat so I doubt tank and lines is an issue. But to be safe I will make sure I have 45-80psi pressure to the filter.,
Its difficult and expensive to troubleshoot a no-start without gauges and a scantool.

I agree its not the ICP but oil in the connector indicates it is money well spent on a replacement. Original fuel pumps can fail in a 2002 without much warning so that was not really a waste of money either but from here on its going to be cheapest to locate a scanner.

Its also common practice to disconnect tuners and such prior to starting the troubleshooting process.

Hopefully Greenskeeper has some more ideas.

.


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2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 160,000 miles.

NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, AIH Delete, ScanGauge II, AIC, 2002 Headlights, Bilstein 4600, Marinco Mod, Cupholder Upgrade, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin LTX


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2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 160,000 miles.

NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, Bilstein 5100, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball

Last edited by ArcticDriver; 03-19-2017 at 09:58 PM.
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:05 AM
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going off what he's said im betting IPR connector is cracked and coil lead wire has broken off

got fuel in bowl, rpm, pressure on the HPOP and functioning EOT... IPR

also don't just assume the new CPS is faultless, have had plenty of brand new in-the-bag parts be wrong... don't always discredit something because you replaced it
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Its difficult and expensive to troubleshoot a no-start without gauges and a scantool.

I agree its not the ICP but oil in the connector indicates it is money well spent on a replacement. Original fuel pumps can fail in a 2002 without much warning so that was not really a waste of money either but from here on its going to be cheapest to locate a scanner.

Its also common practice to disconnect tuners and such prior to starting the troubleshooting process.

Hopefully Greenskeeper has some more ideas.

.
Ok I am convinced. I am getting the scangauge 2. Meantime I will change the fuel filter and inspect inside for blockage. From dieseliq I will look at fuse 22 for the fuel heater since the download says its a no start item. My fuel pressure gauge is coming in tomorrow so I will just go ahead and install it. I will wait to replace the ICP until after I get it running. I don't use the tuner program. I used the tow safe program on my 97 but removed it when I traded. If I start towing again I will use it but not before. In general my engine is in great shape. Just completed a 1200 mile trip and my mileage was 17.9, manual calculation. The truck has been problem free for years so I am not surprised So keep ideas coming and I will close this out when I get it running.
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PREVIOUS TRUCK 97 F250 PSD 3.55 Draw-Tite Slider, pulling 2850RK Keystone Montana DIY Exhaust brake with TC Lockup
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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going off what he's said im betting IPR connector is cracked and coil lead wire has broken off

got fuel in bowl, rpm, pressure on the HPOP and functioning EOT... IPR

also don't just assume the new CPS is faultless, have had plenty of brand new in-the-bag parts be wrong... don't always discredit something because you replaced it

RPM..no not on a 2002. My cps I put could be bad...got it. I do have a new old black one I can try. Not there yet. Agree about the IPR but I will wait until I get the scangauge and fuel pressure gauge installed. Thanks keep ideas coming.

2002 F250 Stock PSD Crew Cab SRW
1998 HR Endeavor MH w/275 Cummins Diesel and MD3060 Allison 6 speed

PREVIOUS TRUCK 97 F250 PSD 3.55 Draw-Tite Slider, pulling 2850RK Keystone Montana DIY Exhaust brake with TC Lockup
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