Disconnected the wire from the ICP to see if it would start. It did not. But the disconnect causes Code P1280 which is an ICP low condition so I think this is a no start condition. If I connect the wire back up I can clear the code and does not show up again unless I disconnect.
So I am confused......After many searches disconnecting the ICP is standard in troubleshooting. But if my 2002 trows this code.....how could it start.
I am missing something here. Appreciate any help
(One more thing is I think I will replace it since I have oil present in the connecter)
The truck should still run with a P1280--ICP Circuit Out of Range Low--when the ICP is unplugged.
It is a common diagnostic to unplug the ICP because a default signal is substituted and the truck still runs...I think it was 715 base for me but I think some guys report it defaults to maybe 750.
If the P1280 only comes on when the ICP is disconnected then its not telling you anything, is it?
Seems that if it threw that code with the ICP plugged in then it would be indicating a problem.
If the ICP has oil in the pigtail then the ICP needs replacing and the pigtail is usually found to require replacement as well.
It depends on how long the oil has been in contact with the pigtail. If the wire insulation has any signs of oil penetration and degradation then its a sure bet it needs to be replaced but I found just a small trace of oil in my connector, just enough to give it a sheen under flashlight, and I gave it a spray of electric cleaner, dried it off with air and dabbed some di-electric grease on the purple grommet and have not had problems since replacement of the ICP (Motorcraft ofcourse).
I wonder if you still have the old style ICP design? That is why I replaced the ones in my trucks...they were the old style with an aluminum type mushroom cap. Maryland DieselNick said it is a good practice to just replace those old ones because they will be failing due to age and he was right on the money...as usual.
Do you have a scanner? Even a ScanGauge-II can give you ICP/IPR readings.
So to end my confusion when you disconnect the line from the ICP it is normal for it to throw the P1280 code.
Ok the oil in the sensor was very noticeable and also in the harness connection. But I didn't see it going to the valley. I don't know if I have a new or old sensor. Probably original. will attach thumbnail.
I have an old Superchips tuner. I can read diagnostic codes but not things like HPOP pressure.
I need one......Any suggestions.
Oh do you have the PN of the new sensor since I am going to replace it since it is leaking slightly.
Yep, you still have the earlier version in there and it should be swapped even if it wasn't showing oil...but I think they fail before they leak enough oil to get in the valley.
ICP Motorcraft P/N: F6TZ-9F838-A
And it would be tough to find a better price than Autonation:
Yep, you still have the earlier version in there and it should be swapped even if it wasn't showing oil...but I think they fail before they leak enough oil to get in the valley.
ICP Motorcraft P/N: F6TZ-9F838-A
And it would be tough to find a better price than Autonation:
Thanks Artic Driver. I am going to order one but I don't think that's the problem. Looking like IPR maybe. I will take the sensor out tomorrow put rags aroung the hole and oil should shoot out if the IPR is working. Checked HPOP level....1 inch from top.
going off what he's said im betting IPR connector is cracked and coil lead wire has broken off
got fuel in bowl, rpm, pressure on the HPOP and functioning EOT... IPR
also don't just assume the new CPS is faultless, have had plenty of brand new in-the-bag parts be wrong... don't always discredit something because you replaced it
going off what he's said im betting IPR connector is cracked and coil lead wire has broken off
got fuel in bowl, rpm, pressure on the HPOP and functioning EOT... IPR
also don't just assume the new CPS is faultless, have had plenty of brand new in-the-bag parts be wrong... don't always discredit something because you replaced it
RPM..no not on a 2002. My cps I put could be bad...got it. I do have a new old black one I can try. Not there yet. Agree about the IPR but I will wait until I get the scangauge and fuel pressure gauge installed. Thanks keep ideas coming.
Thanks Kenny. So it looks like I have ball park readings for trying to start. Charging batteries today. Tomorrow I will install my fuel pressure gauge and take initial readings. I now feel I have a blockage somewhere. Find out more tomorrow.
Great video. I just installed my fuel guage and it shows I am running 65psi prior to starting. Cleaning fuel bowl now. So I might drop the tank if it does not start. I will have to evaluate it to see if an 80 year old can do it. Well back to working on it.
Personally, I would not drop the tank before exploring other reasons for the no-start.
To diagnose a possible broken "foot" you only need to fill the tank 1/4-1/3 full and see if this fixes the issue.
If the small filters are plugged, it is not thpical that it would not even start. I can see it being fuel starved at acceleration but not at idle...just my own opinion.
Here is a suggestion from Maryland DieselNick: You could fill a 2-gallon jug with diesel and run a bypass feed from the jug to your new fuel pump and see if it starts. If it does then you know you need to drop the tank.
Word of warning: its surprising how quickly a 1-gallon jug of diesel will be emptied once the engine is running. Quite a bit of fuel is sent back into the fuel tank. That is why I suggested a 2-gallon jug because you don't want to run your injectors dry.
Personally, I would not drop the tank before exploring other reasons for the no-start.
To overcome a possible broken "foot" you only need to fill the tank 1/4-1/3 full.
If the small filters are plugged, it is not common that it would not even start. I can see it being fuel starved at acceleration but not at idle...just my own opinion.
Here is a suggestion from Maryland DieselNick: You could fill a 2-gallon jug with diesel and run a bypass feed from the jug to your new fuel pump and see if it starts. If it does then you know you need to drop the tank.
Word of warning: its surprising how quickly a 1-gallon jug of diesel will be emptied once the engine is running. Quite a bit of fuel is sent back into the fuel tank. That is why I suggested a 2-gallon jug because you don't want to run your injectors dry.
I seem to be getting plenty of fuel. Cleaned my bowl out and replaced filter. Bowl fills up quick. Tomorrow I think I will check all relays by testing them and physically check all fuses.
Checked Glow Plug relay and it works fine. I pulled the IDM relay and checked to make sure it worked. I have over a half tank of fuel. Have some manuals in the attic so I going up there and dig them out.
After I exhausted everything I can think of I may try the test you suggested. Should not be too difficult since I have a tank in my shed. All I need is 3-4 feet of fuel line. But since I am reading good pressure now I don't suspect a tank problem.
Ok I removed the fuel heater and check valve in the fuel bowl. Check valve was clean. Not so much a spec of contaminants. Replace the o rings. I noticed that when removing the filter and testing the valve it was sticking to get it open. The filter has a little tit that pushes down to open the valve when installing the filter. The only purpose of the valve is to make sure someone does not try to start the engine with no filter.
In another thread I asked about bowl pressure with engine off. I was holding about 40 psi after engine off. What this shows is that the bowl is not leaking and the injectors are not leaking into the cylinders. Now I know. So this is a good thing to watch..
Now I have not completed my voltage checks. Will use shop manuals.
I hope to have a device to do a buzz test by Friday. I feel sure the buzz test will fail due to a faulty IDM. If it fails I will do ohm testing at the IDM plug to insure wiring is ok. Any way that is the plan.
So I will close the loop on this thread when I get it running. Please keep ideas coming.
One other important observation. In the past with this truck and my 97 when I would come out in the morning and try to start before the wait to start light went out....it would flood...very noticeable smell. I have cranked this engine quite a bit since this problem started and the truck has not flooded once.
So right now my analysis is good fuel flow to injectors. Injectors not working or the engine would flood. Hence Buzz test is absolutely necessary.
Maybe I missed it but I didn't see anywhere in this thread that you removed the Superchips tuner and tried to start it. That would normally be the first step in this situation. Make sure the key is out of the truck before you do it.
I have a Superchips Tuner. It has two programs...one for towing the other is a much hotter program. I don't use the programs on my 02. never installed so I don't have to remove it.
The way my tuner works is I can tune with one of the programs and install it. At the same time the tuner stores the original program In the tuner. Later you can switch back to normal if you want. I used the towsafe program on my old 97 and was super satisfied while pulling a 5th wheel. I put the 97 back to normal when I traded for the 02
I only use the tuner now for checking codes on my 02. My 02 is stock and I intend to keep it that way.
I had a similar issue yesterday. It ended up being a lose ground on the pasenger side battery were it grounds to the finder. It was cranking over fast so was hard did not think to check it for a while. Sometimes it can be something simple.
Thanks but I am about 2 hours or so north of you in Spring Hill. I appreciate the offer but it would be too much trouble to drive up here and I would not want to mess up your trip. I am in no rush. Besides I have tools scattered all over the garage and I need to clean up my mess. By the time I get that done and some final checks Friday will be here. I think I am going to wash the truck today. Maybe that will help(lol).
One thing you mentioned a few post above was that you kept 40 psi in the fuel bowl with the key off. The pressure should bleed off pretty quickly, as there's a bleed hole in the regulator. It could be that the bleed hole is plugged and keeping the fuel system pressurized. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but I recall a guy posting about having a no-start because the regulator was plugged. :shrug03: Might be something to check. Just be careful when you pull the return line off the regulator. I've seen more than one of them snapped off inside the connection nut. I would order the regulator repair kit from Diesel-O-Rings just to be safe. Rebuild Kit for the 1999-2003 Fuel Bowl Pressure Relief Valve His billet regulator housing is a good upgrade also.
I'm sure that it will start once you get it washed. :grin2:
One thing you mentioned a few post above was that you kept 40 psi in the fuel bowl with the key off. The pressure should bleed off pretty quickly, as there's a bleed hole in the regulator. It could be that the bleed hole is plugged and keeping the fuel system pressurized. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but I recall a guy posting about having a no-start because the regulator was plugged. :shrug03: Might be something to check. Just be careful when you pull the return line off the regulator. I've seen more than one of them snapped off inside the connection nut. I would order the regulator repair kit from Diesel-O-Rings just to be safe. Rebuild Kit for the 1999-2003 Fuel Bowl Pressure Relief Valve His billet regulator housing is a good upgrade also.
I'm sure that it will start once you get it washed. :grin2:
Thanks for coming in. I have read a lot of your post in my research so I respect what you say........I must clarify.
I just installed a fuel pressure gauge. It activates with ign on. When I try to start the guage registers 60-65 and since the engine does not start the guage starts to bleed down after timeout to about 40 and then hangs in there I just went out to the truck and turned the ign on and waited about 2-3 minutes and it bleed down to about 42. (after timeout)
I had started another thread, just to ask about this condition and the response was in agreement with what you said so I cleaned the check valve. Check valve not dirty.
So I will order the Reg kit but I don't think that is my starting problem. So I have two problem that need to be looked at. Replace my leaking ICP and rebuild the regulator. I prefer to get it started first. My experience is that I might induce another problem while I am waiting for my buzz test.
Oh I am sorry. the one person that responded to my other thread said I could expect some pressure in the bowl overnight.....sorry did not mean to mislead you.......I have the rebuild kit for the bowl so I will order the Reg kit...aas soon as I get it running.
Several updates
While programming my scanguage 2 with the key on the bowl pressure slowly bleed down to 25 psi. That is after 30 minutes or more.
Second update
the equip I ordered come in and I try to perform the electrical Buzz test.
The readout said IDM FAILURE and possible causes are IDM or PCM
Threw code P1293 and according to service manual High Side open bank 1(right)....probable cause Open Circuit or IDM
Threw code P1294 and according to service manual High Side open bank 2(Left)... probable cause Open Circuit or IDM
Threw code P1298 and according to service manual IDM failure................................Probable cause Internal IDM failure
So it looks like my vote goes to IDM failure.
Now Ford Tech Bulletin TB 103 states do not replace the IDM without the resistance checks in the bulletin. So I will pull the IDM tomorrow and due the checks.
Then the problem where to get one. One dealer from Miami was mentioned here in the forum but after doing a BBB check it seems they have quite a few complaints. I assume there are more complaints that people haven't filed. Some don't like to. Complaints from record keeping to Quality problems. I wonder why they let things go so far like that. If they send me a couple of duds I have to pay restocking and shipping. So I may call them and get my concern in the open and ask for written guaranty that they will not do that until I get a working unit. then let the warranty start.
there are others on ebay but I can't check them out....no address.
Swamps is probably reliable but expensive. Have not ruled them out. but I don't want to ruin my 17.9 mpg truck
GBrerun may be ok so I will check them tonight.
Called local Salvage and they deal in several states and can get me the EXACT pn I need. No restocking if it does not work..... this way the pn's will match.
Appreciate any advice.
One more question for the experts. When I get the new IDM can I test it without bolting it back to the mount. It may need that ground.
Thanks guys A summary coming soon when I get it running
Thanks and yes I will do the TB tomorrow morning before I go searching for an IDM. I am going to call GB in the morning to check pricing. If the harness is defective, I will order the IDM after the repair....One step at time for an older guy.
Did my harness check. All resistance readings within TB103 limits except injector 4 which was 4.1 ohms.. For now I am going with it. the rest of the readings were greater than 30meg ohms. Also made a check from the IDM 12v supply relay to pin 14 and it was good so it should have power. Talked with the Miami people about my concerns. Very nice to talk to . Will have me a rebuilt unit tomorrow,
Will try to write a PDF of methods used in trouble shooting this problem.
After installing the IDM my truck started immediately. Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I will attach the summary to three of my threads started when the tuck quit.
Great job of testing and diagnostics Redtopman! I'm very glad you found your problem. Did you ever buzz test your injectors? Also where is the IDM located on the truck? And what did it cost for the rebuilt one. I have used Tousley Ford in White Bear Lake, MN as a source for very reasonably priced ford OEM parts. They are significantly cheaper than most and fast delivery. I got my larger 6.0 trans cooler from them and it was much less than other dealers.
As far as I know the reason it is suggested to change out the old style is that they are several years old now and are typically at the point of wearing out. When an ICP wears out then it often results in oil contaminating the pigtail requiring its replacement as well. The suggestion to replace the old style is just Preventive Maintenance.
If you had a "New Old Stock" ICP style from Motorcraft/IH then I don't think there is a problem using it.
I have not read of any recall.
Thanks Artic Driver. Just received my new one from White Bear. I will put it in soon.
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