Preferred Air Intake?

[catch&release]

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

If you see black smoke, that means the tune is causing the HPOP/injectors/fuel pump/timing to produce more fuel than the available air in the combustion chamber can match to result in complete combustion.

So, does the AIS restrict more airflow than the stock setup? If so, I guess that's why I have the smoke with it and not the OE setup. For whatever reason, I thought the AIS was supposed to give us more airflow.

So, I'd have to go with an "open" style filter to maximize air flow I guess. But then I sacrifice filtering, and I do drive a lot of seriously dusty roads. So for the trade-off, I guess filtering would have a higher priority.

[TXF-250]

I think you could still go with the open air element style filter and have a pre-filter cover on it.

I have the napa 6637 filter, and purchased a pre-filter from pete's filter covers.

Photo Gallery

He was a great guy to deal with and I really think this cover is doing an outstanding job at keeping dust out of the filter, but still flowing PLENTY of air. Check out this link...I cant tell a difference between the 2 filters...

Welcome to Pete's 6637 Intake Cover Web Page

[woodnthings8]

So, does the AIS restrict more airflow than the stock setup? If so, I guess that's why I have the smoke with it and not the OE setup.

The AIS does not restrict flow from what I have seen in information sheets. I obviously haven't tested the flow either. My guess to the smoke is you have more air flowing through the system, so the engine is allowing more fuel. Fuel is what creates the black smoke, if you had an air restriction I would think you would have white smoke (unburnt raw fuel not hot enough to turn black like at start up). That is my guess on it, I have read the brochures and no claim is made to better airflow..... AIS Severe Duty Filter Kit I think I have looked before and did not come up with any good information on it for airflow. IIRC SmokeyWren had some information on it too, maybe he will chime in.

[Tribble]

S&B all the way

[Camptoboat]

I like my DIY napa 6637 filter and a pre-filter from pete's filter.

The red one is my truck and black on is in my sons truck.

[fxdwgi]

Originally Posted by Camptoboat

I like my DIY napa 6637 filter and a pre-filter from pete's filter.

The red one is my truck and black on is in my sons truck.

Camp,

Do you get any dust/dirt in the intake tube at all ?

[Camptoboat]

No dust what so ever inside in both trucks and my son's sees a lot more ugly roads than I do.

My son's takes his cover off and whips the dust off after a dirt road drive on the farm in Eastern WA and to show up work sites. He also changes his filter out at the beginning of Spring and Winter.

[dsroka80504]

Skipped over to the 6.0 forum and they were saying aftermarket intakes are a waste of money. Stick with the stock box. Is that unique to the 6.0 or is there some truth to that?

[fxdwgi]

Originally Posted by dsroka80504

Skipped over to the 6.0 forum and they were saying aftermarket intakes are a waste of money. Stick with the stock box. Is that unique to the 6.0 or is there some truth to that?

The 6.0 intake is very good from the factory....the 7.3 is a whole different story. The factory 7.3 is good for stock setups, but that is about it.

[caryt]

Sorry for the late response. caryt asked me to comment on a few threads, this being one of them, a while ago and I’m just getting around to it. However, on a new computer (yea!… sort of… depends if you like Vista).

Anyway, I don’t monitor all the different forums anymore, but am always willing to comment if anyone would like to link me to the conversation you are having. Since I am a bit late, I’ll respond to the posts as they appear and hopefully it won’t be too confusing.

quote:
“have a used AIS…couldn’t find a filter for it…got a FIPKI K&N system cheap…should I put a tymar on or put the AIS back on??? I was thinking of mounting a tymar to the K&N tube…what do you guys think”

The K&N element should probably be avoided in turbo-charged applications. The initial filtration efficiency is not high enough to protect the compressor impeller.

The phrase “mounting a tymar” sounds kind of like Tymar is a filter. The filter we use is a Donaldson B085011 and Tymar is a company name. Tymar Performance makes all sorts of items, one of them being the open element intake kits.

That said, the element we use would not fit on the end of a K&N FIPK system. I guess you could technically modify things to get it in, but you wouldn’t have minimal radial clearance around the filter, which should be considered very important to providing low restriction air to the turbo. Without supplying minimal radial clearance, you won’t get the positive benefits the open element system should create.

The AIS will provide excellent filtration efficiency, but will not improve overall restriction or allow much additional air flow in the configuration that Ford uses. The Tymar Intake will provide excellent filtration efficiency as well as decrease restriction to the turbo and add significant air flow.

quote:
“Tymar is going to give you better flow but AIS is going to give you unmatched filtration…the AIS plus it will last a LONG time, like 60K miles…”

Although the AIS will give better filtration efficiency, you are only talking about 1/10 of a percent over the filter Tymar Performance Intakes use at initial filtration efficiencies. Not enough of a difference to really differentiate between the two.

For the longevity, you have to start talking about restriction ranges in both stock and aftermarket applications and how dirt will affect them. AIS has a larger capacity, but not across the restriction ranges once installed on the truck. Because of the configuration you are not lowering restriction significant over stock levels, but you are receiving better filtration compared to the stock intake.

The Tymar Intake will allow lower restriction levels and lasts approximately 15K miles in a restriction range LOWER than stock. If you want to go with longevity of filter, you can continue using the same filter and will simply not experience the positive benefits of lower than stock restriction levels.

We supplied the intake systems for Granite Construction and used them as a severe duty use test. They were rebuilding Power Stroke engines at approximately 60K miles because of the fine silt in the mining beds. After changing to our system they were using the same filters with 28K mile change out intervals and only experiencing 32”h2o of restriction (yellow on your stock restriction gauges) and they eliminated the necessity of engine rebuilds and were selling the used trucks with over 180K miles on them.

quote:
“I'm using a tymar because it's cheap to setup and offers good filtration.”

Although I agree with you, your listed intake is a DIY 6637, which is neither a Tymar nor a recommended system by us. The WIX/NAPA 6637 is not a hydrophobic (water resistant) element and using it as an open element should be avoided. There are other concerns such as providing minimal radial clearance, isolating engine vibration, positioning away from rain drip channel, etc. But, I just wanted to draw a clear difference between copies, DIY efforts, and our product.

quote:
“…be sure your Tymar-type filter includes the PowerCore filter media and not some lesser media material.”

Although the PowerCore ® media is far superior to most other media, there is not a PowerCore media filter available for use as an open element. They are inserts for intake boxes and are not configure for use as filter alone applications.

The filter media is not the main attraction, but the filter configuration. It is NOT true that you cannot get the same filtration efficiencies or flow rates from other Donaldson products. It will just simply have to be larger. The PowerCore configuration allows for compact applications that have flow rates and filtration efficiencies of filters much larger. So it is the compactness of the element and not that the media processes some magical qualities.

quote:
“IMO, the FIPK tube with the heat shield and the Donaldson (aka #6637) filter combination is hard to beat for the money.”


I would probably respectfully disagree. The problem is the thickness of the stacked gauze media will not allow for a high pleat count and severely restricts the available surface area. A typical RD-1460 that is used in a FIPK system only has about 44 pleats. The Donaldson we use is not only a larger filter overall, but the thinner media allows for 202 pleats, leaving us over 5 times the surface area to pull from. This is why we can outflow and out filter a re-usable element as long as minimum radial clearance is maintained.

The problem with heat shields and routing air through intake boxes is that whenever you direct air flow, you increase restriction. Low restriction is the goal, so using a filter that has the ability to flow large masses of air and then enclosing it in a box yields very poor results. Heat shields do literally nothing. Air flow under the hood is dynamic and not static. It is moving all the time. Hot air will move right around a heat shield at the same temperature and be ingested and the only thing you have caused is turbulence.

Aside from impeding minimal radial clearance and isolation of engine vibration, a serious cause for concern is placing the filter, especially a 6637 element, under a rain drip channel for the hood. Beyond the ambient moisture that will cause restriction as it is absorbed into the non-hydrophobic media, you will be directing water towards the filter anytime the rain drip channel flows more rain than it can hold or spills over the retainer during left turns.

I’ll try to check back in and address further comments in the days to come and can hopefully shed some light on why we do what we do using the configuration we did.

Peace to all, enjoy those rigs!
__________________

[dsroka80504]

So, for my application, I am leaning towards the AFE Stage 2. I am going to spend 90% of my time on pavement towing a 36' 5th wheel. I live in Colorado where I frequently go over 11K mountain passes, O2 is at a premium here. Am I giving anything up? I am open to suggestions, but for what I am doing, I am not overly concerned with high dust except camp ground roads. I don't do any 4 wheeling, but don't want to subject my intake to dirt. Was going to buy a K&N, but after this blog leaning away. I also don't want to mess around with some custom thing, I just want to buy a filter, throw it on and go.

[MonteC]

Just my .02 but i love my S&B so far.

[dsroka80504]

Change of plans. Spoke to DP for about 20 minutes and they recommend the S&B. If it is good enough for Jody's truck, good enough for me. Now the question is oil or dry filter medium?

[farnereinar]

i have the diy intake 6637 napa filter

id invest in a sock, ive heard stories from a PSD mechanic about guys always running that setup and getting water in them, from just driving in the rain


i see modorate conditions, and have had dust get up into my intake tubes my turbo shaft in the last 10k miles has started to wiggle a little its been fine for the previous 50k miles before the mod

...but...

im too lazy to switch back, though i know im gonna be crying when i have to shell out 800 on a rebuilt turbo