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99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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Old 11-09-2006, 02:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Strange Fuel Leak

I have a 2000 PSD with the 7.3 Liter Diesel, and I just noticed fuel leaking around passenger side of engine compartment. all over battery, Wheelwell, and cold side of Intercooler. Pressure washed Engine, Removed Battery and Coolant Overflow Tank, Took apart Intercooler tube and boot, cleaned, inspected, put back together nice and tight, still have raw fuel leaking from somewhere. Valley pan, turbo housing, filter housing and fuel lines all seem dry, but I still have fuel all over top of battery, around lower intercooler line and boot, and drenching the passenger side wheelwell. Would raw fuel be leaking from inside of Intercooler somehow? I also have a shifty performance wastegate controller that gives me a max boost of 20.5 psi, ( without shifty I have a max boost of 15.5 psi ) I've had the controller Installed for a couple years with no problems, and it does seem to increase my mileage a little. Anyway, one theory is that the wastegate controller is telling the computer to dump more fuel than the engine can burn, and it's leaking under pressure from the Intercooler. Any merit to this? I hope I haven't ruined anything. Truck does not smoke, run funny, or use oil, just leaking fuel from somewhere.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

Fuel won't be leaking from your intercooler tube, cause there's only air in there (plus a little oil vapor from the crankcase vent). The fuel only gets into the engine thru the injectors in the cylinder heads.

My suspicion is that you have a leak at the fuel filter cap that's squirting at the battery. Pop the hood and turn on the key and see what happens. The fuel system is under pressure for 20 sec or so without starting the engine. I think you'll find your leak source doing that.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

I checked around Fuel Filter, all is dry, and it would have to squirt through A/C Compressor and a couple of Solenoids to get to Battery. I also just saw a post on page 19 from "Oil Slick" about Fuel in Cooling System. Opened my Resovoir Tank, and sure enough, about 2 or 3 " of Diesel Fuel on Top of Coolant. Injector Cups? Sounds Labor Intense and Expensive. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sick.gif[/img] Any Suggestions? Not much Info in post on page 19. What could cause such a thing? My truck has 154,000 Miles on it now, and otherwise runs great. I've Driven about 400 Miles since I first noticed Fuel Leak, and just noticed the fuel in Coolant Tank today. I hope I haven't damaged anything by driving the truck that many miles with the leak, but work has been busy, and I haven't hardly seen the light of day lately. Any Info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

Yeah, Injector cups would be the diagnosis with fuel in the coolant. I'd forgotten how messy mine was when it puked ATF out the radiator cap when the tranny cooler gave up the ghost. ATF all over the same places you mentioned. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/vomit.gif[/img]

Fairly major job to replace injector cups. The shop will need the cup removal/replacer tools, and it will be down for a little while. If you don't have coolant in the fuel, then you're probably OK. Fortunately, the fuel pressure is usually higher than coolant pressure, so hopefully no coolant went thru the injectors.

Make sure you flush the coolant system and change the oil and filter when it's fixed. There may be some coolant in the oil.

Good luck with it.
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Old 11-09-2006, 05:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

O.K., so, what is the injector cups' job, and what causes them to fail? Could it be too much Boost? (20.5 psi), or Power Service Diesel Kleene Additive? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

[ QUOTE ]
O.K., so, what is the injector cups' job, and what causes them to fail? Could it be too much Boost? (20.5 psi), or Power Service Diesel Kleene Additive? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the seat that seals and holds the injector in the head. Nothing causes them to fail, kinda like a CPS, or any other non-moving part on your 444E. No boost pressures or PowerService either.

I'd pull the heads because I think you can't do #8 with them on. It a pretty pricey job, my buddie just had it done on his.
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Old 11-09-2006, 09:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

[ QUOTE ]
I'd pull the heads because I think you can't do #8 with them on. It a pretty pricey job, my buddie just had it done on his.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the guys posted a while back that #8 could be done without pulling the head, just not with the slide hammer puller. As I recall, he said that the puller tap could be screwed in place and a prybar used against the rocker tower.

The injector cup's job as I understand it is to provide better heat transfer to the coolant at the injector tip. Here's a nice cutaway photo that shows the injector and cup. The thin copper cup transfers heat better than a thicker cast iron section would. Might also be there to make it easier to cast the heads. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
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Old 11-10-2006, 03:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a nice cutaway photo that shows the injector and cup.

[/ QUOTE ]
Great Photo! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] Thanks for Information too. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I contacted my local Ford Dealership this Morning and talked to their Diesl Tech. He said he would replace all 8 injector cups and seals, and that they could be replaced with the heads on the motor. He also recommended replacing the passenger side Battery, due to fuel likely leaking into cells, and all Cooling System Hoses due to fuel contamination. He said he would need it for about 2 days, and it would be roughly $1800.00. Sounds reasonable to me for all that's involved, so I'm gonna have them do it. He also said that sometimes those cups corrode from the coolant side, and eventually develop a leak. I guess we'll find out. I'll post the results as I get them. Thanks all again for Help. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 11-13-2006, 12:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

I believe mine just started leaking fuel into the cooling system too. I had a broken #3 glow plug which required removing the head. I got the truck back and after a few days I noticed the overflow tank looked like it had some clear liquid above the coolant with a black ring around the inside of the tank. I opened it up and it smells like diesel fuel to me. I'm going to take it back today to see what they will do about this, I'll bet that smell is going to cost me a lot more money.. This truck only has 85K miles on it and I had the coolant changed at the recommended 60K interval.

Mike
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

Bummer Deal. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I'll bet that broken glow plug wasn't exactly cheap to fix either. Maybe if you're lucky, the shop messed up on something, or a faulty head gasket, and this next repair will be on their dime. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] I barely got mine back from having a killer BTS Tranny and 6.0 Cooler installed to the tune of about 6 grand, and now this. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bleh.gif[/img] Dropped it off at the dealership this morning, and should have it back either tomorrow or Wednesday. I refuse to give up hope at this point, though. Hopefully after this, I'll be good to go for a long time. I don't have to worry about my tranny anymore, and I'll bet the ole' Navistar has plenty of miles left in 'er.

Heck, Yours isn't even broken yet, lol, I'm jealous. This Injector cup thing is the first problem I've had with the motor, other than the cam position sensor, which was really no big deal, so I'm not too discouraged. I still love my truck, and don't have the desire to drive anything else.

Good luck with yours, and let me know how it turns out.
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Old 11-14-2006, 12:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

Yea, the broken glow plug was about $1300, I had already ordered a South Bend OFE clutch the week before for it so the bill was $2800 for both. That includes coolant flush, head gasket, head bolts, and oil & filter change, etc. I'm hoping they will find the leak is due to the head removal and give me a break on the labor bill. I will keep you posted.

Mike
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

I got my Truck back from the Dealership last night, and saw the injector cups. Couldn't see any corrosion or cracks on any of them, and the Tech said it's difficult to pinpoint which one might have been leaking. They replaced all my Injector Cups and Seals, Heater Hoses and Radiator Hoses, and the Overflow tank, but the Battery tested o.k., so they left that alone. They did change the oil, and flush the Cooling system too. However, after driving about 100 miles today, I noticed about 1/4" of fuel on top of my coolant again. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sick.gif[/img] I called the Dealership, and the Tech said that it may be residual from before. I asked if I could try to skim it out of there somehow, and he said I could try to absorb the fuel off the top of the coolant with a lint free cloth, and to keep checking the resovoir for more fuel over the next few days. He also said if I still have fuel accumilating in the Coolant resovoir, that I may have a cracked head. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/vomit.gif[/img] I sure hope not. I'm not sure how I could afford another several thousand dollar repair bill.

Wish me luck, and for now I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.
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Old 11-17-2006, 02:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

Are the Injector cups part of the injectors or a seperate piece in other words if I bought newer bigger better smarter stronger faster and of course more expensive injectors and installed them would this fix cups leaking?
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Old 11-17-2006, 03:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

Lariat_Rob_2000,

I'm sorry to hear yours is still having problems. I got mine back yesterday, they told me it was not fuel in the coolant instead it was a little bit of oil that got into the cooling system when they pulled the head. They flushed the cooling system again and asked me to keep watching it. So far so good. I would think a cracked head would give you more problems than fuel in the coolant.
Good luck!

Swell Mel,
The injector cups are water cooled copper cups the injectors fit into that are pressed into the head to cool the injector tips, they are not part of the injector itself.


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Old 11-17-2006, 06:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Strange Fuel Leak

Look real close at all the cups, and I mean close. You will find one or maybe more with a slightly differant shape and a differant shade of soot or residue on it. If the guy that changed mine hadn't shown me I never would have seen it myself.He had to plug the block heater in to find the one that was leaking, it took the heat and a little bit of pressure in the radiator to show the leak.Its not even what I would call a hairline crack.
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