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99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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Old 10-23-2010, 03:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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truck won't turn off

Ok, here is the situation:
My truck is sitting in the drive way, ignition (on key) off, I pulled fuses. The truck is still running. It keeps running.

What fuses should I try, what does kill the engine?

Thanks.
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Eriol: 2002 F350 PSD Lariat SCSB 4WD 4R100(deleted) ZF6; 450,000 km as of Apr. 2014
AFe Big Boost 24-91042 on home made intake, 4" turbo back magnaflow exhaust, Edge Evo 2, running 60% SVO in tank, Hellwig big wig sway bars, HPx.
in-tank fuel mod (hutch mod and harpoon mod).586-902 stancor GPR moved out of the valley. Baldwin 1212 pre-pump filter mod. Always bright OHC. boostvalve. TrueTrac diff in rear.
AE: southern Vancouver Island, B.C. or wherever I go.
Cedric: 1991 Jeep Cherokee Laredo Zebra, 5spd. trans. 4WD, 4.0l (for sale)
Jeep: 2002 Jeep TJ Sport 5spd. 4.0l, bone stock, garage find super mint condition.
Camper: 2012 Palamino Maverick 8801
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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there should be a fuel pump fuse. Yank that and it shouldnt run too much longer
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I looked in the 2002 owners manual. I would try this one first:

fuse # 27 15A* Ignition switch Run feed

2nd one I would try:

pcm relay #302 should also kill it.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonkaThunder View Post
there should be a fuel pump fuse. Yank that and it shouldnt run too much longer
I wouldn't do that one. It's hard on the injectors to run out of fuel.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It killed itself in the meantime.
I had the PCM keep alive fuse out, kept running.
I tried the fuel pump fuse. It kept running.
I tried the two engine control fuses as per owner's manual. It kept running.
I even had the edge being reset with all the fuse pulling (like I would have disconnected the batteries). The engine kept running.

Ever anybody had this?
Could it be a pcm relay going bad, having bad contacts?

What should I check?

BTW: I have a remote start in the truck. Usually, when the truck is started remotely, and I do not have the key in the switch and I press the accel. or brake pedal, the engine dies immediately. Did not work this time.

This really baffles me.
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Eriol: 2002 F350 PSD Lariat SCSB 4WD 4R100(deleted) ZF6; 450,000 km as of Apr. 2014
AFe Big Boost 24-91042 on home made intake, 4" turbo back magnaflow exhaust, Edge Evo 2, running 60% SVO in tank, Hellwig big wig sway bars, HPx.
in-tank fuel mod (hutch mod and harpoon mod).586-902 stancor GPR moved out of the valley. Baldwin 1212 pre-pump filter mod. Always bright OHC. boostvalve. TrueTrac diff in rear.
AE: southern Vancouver Island, B.C. or wherever I go.
Cedric: 1991 Jeep Cherokee Laredo Zebra, 5spd. trans. 4WD, 4.0l (for sale)
Jeep: 2002 Jeep TJ Sport 5spd. 4.0l, bone stock, garage find super mint condition.
Camper: 2012 Palamino Maverick 8801
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Old 10-23-2010, 05:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'd suspect the remote start. Sounds like a relay (probably solid state) that keeps the run circuit powered isn't dropping out like it should.

Pulling either the PCM or IDM relay should kill the engine. Both of those are pulled in by turning the key on, and both need to be activated for the engine to run.

BTW, the PCM KAM fuse is only one of multiple power inputs to the PCM. Pulling it doesn't deactivate the PCM, just makes it loose whatever is stored in volatile memory (codes, etc.)
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Hard or no-start? Check Here
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klhansen View Post
I'd suspect the remote start. Sounds like a relay (probably solid state) that keeps the run circuit powered isn't dropping out like it should.

Pulling either the PCM or IDM relay should kill the engine. Both of those are pulled in by turning the key on, and both need to be activated for the engine to run.
I am pretty sure it is not the ignition switch, as the dash and radio reacted like they should when turning on and off the power with the key.

I kind of suspect the PCM relay having corroded contacts and not opening when it should. I had a look at the wiring diagram and found that the IDM relay is getting closed from the key, so what I could not wrap my head around is: How would the truck keep running when the PCM is having power, but the IDM not? or vice-versa?

How bad is it for the PCM to pull the relay while it is powered? Could this fry the PCM?
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Eriol: 2002 F350 PSD Lariat SCSB 4WD 4R100(deleted) ZF6; 450,000 km as of Apr. 2014
AFe Big Boost 24-91042 on home made intake, 4" turbo back magnaflow exhaust, Edge Evo 2, running 60% SVO in tank, Hellwig big wig sway bars, HPx.
in-tank fuel mod (hutch mod and harpoon mod).586-902 stancor GPR moved out of the valley. Baldwin 1212 pre-pump filter mod. Always bright OHC. boostvalve. TrueTrac diff in rear.
AE: southern Vancouver Island, B.C. or wherever I go.
Cedric: 1991 Jeep Cherokee Laredo Zebra, 5spd. trans. 4WD, 4.0l (for sale)
Jeep: 2002 Jeep TJ Sport 5spd. 4.0l, bone stock, garage find super mint condition.
Camper: 2012 Palamino Maverick 8801
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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That's why I said it was probably your remote start. It bypasses the ignition switch run contacts to keep the PCM and IDM relays pulled in.

Pulling either the IDM relay or PCM relay will definitely kill the engine. Pulling the relay while it's running is no different than turning the key off as far as the IDM or PCM are concerned. You won't hurt either one by trying that.

If it stays running again, check voltage at fuse #30 under the dash. It's controlled by the ignition switch (and kept hot by the remote start if used.) If you have 12V there when the key is off, you either have a bad ignition switch or the remote is keeping it powered. [on edit] won't be fuse #30 on your 02. Check your fuse panel diagram for the fuse that powers the PCM and IDM relays and the fuel heater and check for voltage on that one.

There are 4 separately switched circuits in the ignition switch, and they can fail individually, so the fact that the radio responded to the key doesn't mean the circuit powering the PCM/IDM relays doesn't have a stuck switch.

If you can pull that ignition switch circuit jumper wire off your remote, that will take it out of the equation.
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First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version), AIS, coolant filter w/"hokum" bracket, regulated return, heated mirror mod, lighted cupholder, Marinco heater plug-in.

Hard or no-start? Check Here

Last edited by klhansen; 10-23-2010 at 06:19 PM. Reason: corrected for MY02
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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pulling fuse #30 was my first attempt to kill the engine and it did not work.
I will check it out right now, and see what I can find.
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Eriol: 2002 F350 PSD Lariat SCSB 4WD 4R100(deleted) ZF6; 450,000 km as of Apr. 2014
AFe Big Boost 24-91042 on home made intake, 4" turbo back magnaflow exhaust, Edge Evo 2, running 60% SVO in tank, Hellwig big wig sway bars, HPx.
in-tank fuel mod (hutch mod and harpoon mod).586-902 stancor GPR moved out of the valley. Baldwin 1212 pre-pump filter mod. Always bright OHC. boostvalve. TrueTrac diff in rear.
AE: southern Vancouver Island, B.C. or wherever I go.
Cedric: 1991 Jeep Cherokee Laredo Zebra, 5spd. trans. 4WD, 4.0l (for sale)
Jeep: 2002 Jeep TJ Sport 5spd. 4.0l, bone stock, garage find super mint condition.
Camper: 2012 Palamino Maverick 8801
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Does your remote start have it's own fuse? Pulling that should take it out of the picture and help you troubleshoot.

To clarify, the PCM and IDM power relays are both pulled in by the same circuit powered by turning the key on. Fuse #30 is between the ignition switch and the relays on 99-01 trucks, but changed in 02. I don't have the 02 and later wiring diagrams available right now, so can't point you to the right fuse.
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First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version), AIS, coolant filter w/"hokum" bracket, regulated return, heated mirror mod, lighted cupholder, Marinco heater plug-in.

Hard or no-start? Check Here
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ok, she's behaving at the moment. I pulled fuse #30 while she was running, and nothing happened (she stayed running).
She turned off the moment I turned the key off.
But I have the multimeter in the truck now, so next time I am prepared.
And I know which relay to pull in case I need to kill her.

Thank you all.
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Eriol: 2002 F350 PSD Lariat SCSB 4WD 4R100(deleted) ZF6; 450,000 km as of Apr. 2014
AFe Big Boost 24-91042 on home made intake, 4" turbo back magnaflow exhaust, Edge Evo 2, running 60% SVO in tank, Hellwig big wig sway bars, HPx.
in-tank fuel mod (hutch mod and harpoon mod).586-902 stancor GPR moved out of the valley. Baldwin 1212 pre-pump filter mod. Always bright OHC. boostvalve. TrueTrac diff in rear.
AE: southern Vancouver Island, B.C. or wherever I go.
Cedric: 1991 Jeep Cherokee Laredo Zebra, 5spd. trans. 4WD, 4.0l (for sale)
Jeep: 2002 Jeep TJ Sport 5spd. 4.0l, bone stock, garage find super mint condition.
Camper: 2012 Palamino Maverick 8801
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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So I had to taxi my son around a bit and had the opportunity to do some more experiments.
It is the remote start module causing the problems.
I do not have trouble when I start her with the key. Only when I use the remote starter.
I will post back when I have this one figured out.
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Eriol: 2002 F350 PSD Lariat SCSB 4WD 4R100(deleted) ZF6; 450,000 km as of Apr. 2014
AFe Big Boost 24-91042 on home made intake, 4" turbo back magnaflow exhaust, Edge Evo 2, running 60% SVO in tank, Hellwig big wig sway bars, HPx.
in-tank fuel mod (hutch mod and harpoon mod).586-902 stancor GPR moved out of the valley. Baldwin 1212 pre-pump filter mod. Always bright OHC. boostvalve. TrueTrac diff in rear.
AE: southern Vancouver Island, B.C. or wherever I go.
Cedric: 1991 Jeep Cherokee Laredo Zebra, 5spd. trans. 4WD, 4.0l (for sale)
Jeep: 2002 Jeep TJ Sport 5spd. 4.0l, bone stock, garage find super mint condition.
Camper: 2012 Palamino Maverick 8801
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Blocking off the intake air will kill any diesel engine. Just be sure that nothing is sucked into engine while blocking air.
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
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With having an Edge in there it's probably a turbo cool down timer,try to unplug/disable the edge and see if it cuts off then.
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
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schlepprock,

the truck wasn't even warmed up to proper operating temperatures when it happened. I only had EGTs in the high 200s, EOT was below 130.
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Eriol: 2002 F350 PSD Lariat SCSB 4WD 4R100(deleted) ZF6; 450,000 km as of Apr. 2014
AFe Big Boost 24-91042 on home made intake, 4" turbo back magnaflow exhaust, Edge Evo 2, running 60% SVO in tank, Hellwig big wig sway bars, HPx.
in-tank fuel mod (hutch mod and harpoon mod).586-902 stancor GPR moved out of the valley. Baldwin 1212 pre-pump filter mod. Always bright OHC. boostvalve. TrueTrac diff in rear.
AE: southern Vancouver Island, B.C. or wherever I go.
Cedric: 1991 Jeep Cherokee Laredo Zebra, 5spd. trans. 4WD, 4.0l (for sale)
Jeep: 2002 Jeep TJ Sport 5spd. 4.0l, bone stock, garage find super mint condition.
Camper: 2012 Palamino Maverick 8801
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