Blue Cps Tested

[carnut57]

[ QUOTE ]
Jody did cylinder pressure testing on my truck Thursday and Friday with a new Black Motorcraft CPS and a new Blue International CPS.

This thing can now be laid to rest as I left with a black CPS in my truck.

Here are the hard facts.

Idle efficiency is 44.4 percent with the blue and 55.4 percent with the black.

Cylinder pressure at idle is 553 psi at 9 degrees ATDC with the blue and 572 psi at 8 degree with the black.

Combustion duration was only 35 degrees of crank rotation with the blue and 51 degrees of crank rotation with the black.

Torque at idle was 4.7 foot pounds per cylinder with the blue and 4.3 per cylinder with the black.

The testing was also done on the road and was along the same lines as the idle testing. It just compounded the numbers with RPMs. So there it is tested and graphed.

When you read the graph, the blue CPS doesn't have a clean curve. The black CPS gives a nice rise and fall on the graph with a nice rounded top. The blue CPS gives a rise sooner but has a divot in the top of the curve then falls off sooner.

FOMOGO

[/ QUOTE ]Great data! I am very impressed to see a 9% increase in torque using less fuel with the Blue CPS. It's also good to see that this holds true in the road test as well. The lower cylinder pressure and shorter duration using the Blue CPS should also help to lower EGTs slightly.

[444-4D]

[ QUOTE ]
Great data! I am very impressed to see a 9% increase in torque using less fuel with the Blue CPS. It's also good to see that this holds true in the road test as well. The lower cylinder pressure and shorter duration using the Blue CPS should also help to lower EGTs slightly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great response too. Would you consider being Hilarys Press Secretary when she is elected President?

I was surprised that after all the pages of discussion about advancing or retarding timing we didn't get the answer. If it can be determined how many crank degrees the combustion process consumes, I don't see why it can't be determined where the crank is when it starts. Or perhaps I'm expected to use that peak pressure position as the answer.

[hamhock]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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Jody did cylinder pressure testing on my truck Thursday and Friday with a new Black Motorcraft CPS and a new Blue International CPS.

This thing can now be laid to rest as I left with a black CPS in my truck.

Here are the hard facts.

Idle efficiency is 44.4 percent with the blue and 55.4 percent with the black.

Cylinder pressure at idle is 553 psi at 9 degrees ATDC with the blue and 572 psi at 8 degree with the black.

Combustion duration was only 35 degrees of crank rotation with the blue and 51 degrees of crank rotation with the black.

Torque at idle was 4.7 foot pounds per cylinder with the blue and 4.3 per cylinder with the black.

The testing was also done on the road and was along the same lines as the idle testing. It just compounded the numbers with RPMs. So there it is tested and graphed.

When you read the graph, the blue CPS doesn't have a clean curve. The black CPS gives a nice rise and fall on the graph with a nice rounded top. The blue CPS gives a rise sooner but has a divot in the top of the curve then falls off sooner.

FOMOGO


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Great data! I am very impressed to see a 9% increase in torque using less fuel with the Blue CPS. It's also good to see that this holds true in the road test as well. The lower cylinder pressure and shorter duration using the Blue CPS should also help to lower EGTs slightly.


[/ QUOTE ]



No Dave, the <font color="blue"> BLUE CPS </font> is retarding timing and the PCM is ADDING fuel to maintain the desired idle speed.

Retarding timing increases EGT's while lowering cylinder pressure.

[carnut57]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Great data! I am very impressed to see a 9% increase in torque using less fuel with the Blue CPS. It's also good to see that this holds true in the road test as well. The lower cylinder pressure and shorter duration using the Blue CPS should also help to lower EGTs slightly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great response too. Would you consider being Hilarys Press Secretary when she is elected President?

I was surprised that after all the pages of discussion about advancing or retarding timing we didn't get the answer. If it can be determined how many crank degrees the combustion process consumes, I don't see why it can't be determined where the crank is when it starts. Or perhaps I'm expected to use that peak pressure position as the answer.

[/ QUOTE ]What did you expect? The data as presented without questioning the process of collection or how it is presented seems to be positive for the Blue CPS verses the stock CPS. But I think what we are really looking at here is how the PCM reacts with the Blue CPS verses the stock one and how it effects how the engine runs.

[ QUOTE ]
When you read the graph, the blue CPS doesn't have a clean curve. The black CPS gives a nice rise and fall on the graph with a nice rounded top. The blue CPS gives a rise sooner but has a divot in the top of the curve then falls off sooner.

[/ QUOTE ]I have to assume this was done on a scope and since it has been mentioned so many times in the other thread that the siganl from the CPS is digital and is read by the PCM on the fall. The more square the curve and the straighter up and down it is indicates to me a more precise signal to the PCM than a sloping curve.

Of course their will be many different takes on what this data means based on how is has been presented, but from what I can glean from it, the Blue CPS simply works better.

[Strictly Diesel]

Dave,

1. This was not done on an O-Scope...it was done with ACTUAL CYLINDER PRESSURE TESTING EQUIPMENT! Jody wasn't looking at the electrical signals, he was looking at the actual combustion event, the cylinder pressure in the combustion chamber, temperature in the combustion chamber and the actual combustion timing.

2. The Blue CPS RETARDS the timing...PERIOD!

3. Retarded timing causes a slight DECREASE in Horsepower, an slight increase in Torque...but at the cost of higher combustion chamber temperatures which lead to higher exhaust gas temps.

4. DRMILLER100 said it correctly, the BLACK CPS burns 11% less fuel than the blue at idle. Plain and simple, the BLACK CPS is more efficient...PERIOD!

5. FOMOGO mentioned the curve on the blue CPS not being "clean". I'll try to describe what the curves look like and represent.
<ul type="square">[*]On the BLACK CPS, we see the Cylinder Pressure (CP) rising as the piston reaches TDC with the valves closed (looks like a standard bell curve on the left side of TDC). At about 4-5° ATDC we see the combustion event begin, represented by another rise in CP. Max CP (572psi) is reached by 8° ATDC and by 10° ATDC the curve is on its way back down. PEAK Cylinder temperatures peak at 572°C @ about 11° ATDC and last for roughly 3-4° of crank rotation.[*]On the BLUE CPS, we see the CP rising as the piston reaches TDC...just like with the Black CPS. By about 3° ATDC there is a NOTICEABLE dip in the CP as the piston is already starting to move downard and the combustion event has not yet started. At about 5° ATDC we see the beginning of the combustion event represented by another rise in CP. Max CP (553psi) is reached by 9° ATDC and by 11° ATDC the curve is on its way back down. PEAK Cylinder temperatures peak at 580°C @ about 13° ATDC and last for roughly 5-6° of crank rotation.[/list]Simply put, the combustion event with the Blue CPS is starting later (retarded) and starting with less CP in the cylinder to begin with. While this may result in a bit quieter event, less CP and delayed combustion result in a loss of power and higher temperatures (cylinder and exhaust).

I'm sorry Dave, but this data CAN NOT be twisted into making the Blue CPS look better than the black. This has nothing to do with electrical signals or magnet strenght or anything else, we're simply looking at the effect on the actual combustion event...and the effect is not positive.

[carnut57]

Thank you for explaining the data presented. I have no experience with this type of testing equipment and will be the first to admit I may have misunderstood the data. Also I cannot make any comments as to how data at idle relates to running down the road or towing or what the CPS actually does or effects it may have on the PCM. However the real world results most of us have seen using the Blue CPS do not seem to agree with this data. My mileage is up 1.5mpg using the Blue CPS, the truck pulls a load better, smoke is visibly reduced and I cannot see any change in EGTs. The truck runs quieter and I enjoy the way it runs. So for me, and I would guess most that have tried the Blue CPS, we are keeping them regardless of the data. Besides it won't be long before the fuel savings alone pays for it.

[BIG JOE]

Thanks Dennis, For testing/compareing the two CPSs and shareing the results. Very interesting, to say the least.

I did a bit of Shadetree testing myself, this past weekend. I have no test equipment to hook up to obtain any printable data, just my SOTP test gear.

Last Friday morning I R &amp; R'd my Blue CPS with the Black one (new) I carried as a spare. Hooked up my FW, went on a 150 mile (one way) trip. Sunday Morning I swapped them back out, Topped Off. Headed home Monday.

This trip was on mostly flat, normal freeway type highway with a few minor hills. It's to a place we go often, I'm very familure with the road and terrain.

My SOTP data was: My truck (as Mod'd) Runs a bit better with the Blue CPS. In an "Over All" kinda way. Smoother, with a bit more Pep. EGTs were about the same. MPG's were 10.7 on the Black, 11.8 on the Blue. 95% Cruise Control.

Just one trip, on just one 7-3, pull'n a 11-12K FW. Just one opinion.

After all this Back'n Forth..... I think what we have here is... An Alternate CPS to use. The choices of which one to use (?) are up to the individule owner. One may be better than the other, depending on application based on need.

JOE

[pabrannan]

BINGO! [ QUOTE ]
After all this Back'n Forth..... I think what we have here is... An Alternate CPS to use. The choices of which one to use (?) are up to the individule owner. One may be better than the other, depending on application based on need.


[/ QUOTE ]

Like has been said here MANY times, our trucks are different and will respond to differently even with the same items.
Just my take.........

Paul B

[Strictly Diesel]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Dennis, For testing/compareing the two CPSs and shareing the results. Very interesting, to say the least.

[/ QUOTE ]
I ABSOLUTELY CAN'T TAKE CREDIT FOR THIS! Jody and Doug did the testing, I'm just reporting the results after lengthy conversations with Jody and looking at the data the testing generated.

[BIG JOE]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Dennis, For testing/compareing the two CPSs and shareing the results. Very interesting, to say the least.

[/ QUOTE ]
I ABSOLUTELY CAN'T TAKE CREDIT FOR THIS! Jody and Doug did the testing, I'm just reporting the results after lengthy conversations with Jody and looking at the data the testing generated.

[/ QUOTE ]

MY BUST !! Sorry 'bout that Dennis.... Thanks to Jody &amp; Doug then [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], for the Testing..... but a Thanks to you for reporting it...

I was only on my 2nd cup'a Coffee [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

JOE

[preddy08]

i have not done any testing other than seat of the pants and MPG. but wiht the blue it is a bit quiter and has more pep. it seem to like the cold weather ALOT better than the black.when i start it when it is below 0 it sounds like it is already warmed up.(which it is'nt) it just seem more plesent to drive, cold or warm.(temps)



i like this mod period!

[Dubco1]

Ok, this isn't directed at anybody but at the thread in general. Dennis explained it as clearly as it can be explained. There is a lot of speculation about driving down the road and how the CPS is performing. Well I don't tow anything bigger than a car trailer so it wont compare to the guys with the big loads. The first post I made said everything including the fact that all parameters were compounded with RPMs. Yes going down the road at a steady cruise it retarded the timing and it did not make more power. And my truck did pick up 2 full MPG on cruise at 78 MPH. It ran quieter and seemed to have an overall better feel. But when you ride down the road and watch the timing backing out of the motor as you accelerate it wasn't what I had hoped for. We spent about 6 hours installing and removing this equipment and that doesn't include the time we spent running the multiple test on a 20 mile loop. Idle figures were only used as a sample, to show you what it was starting out as. We would have to write a book to show or explain all of the events. The CP testing equipment can only save 30 seconds of info at a time. In that 30 seconds it records 75,000 samples per second, per sensor. At idle a single file is 32 MEG at cruise a single file is 48 meg. So I hope you can understand why this cant be posted with any more detail than it already has. The motor does not make more horse power, a little more torque, yes but at the expense of combustion efficiency. Its just my opinion but this mod falls in the same file as the K&amp;N panel filters...

FOMOGO

[2180]

what is the difference in the blue and black cps where do you buy a blue and black. what would be used for truck pulling?

[Elephant]

Most drivers have reported that the blue CPS did not run well when first installed. Was this considered during the testing? Was the truck run for a few hundred miles before testing? I know that this adds some other variables and other sources of error in the results (fuel quality between tanks, weather, OAT, etc...) but I think that the "break in" of the blue CPS should be considered.

I am not on one side or another, just want to understand...

[Dubco1]

The blue CPS had 2500 miles on it when it was tested. First I have heard of breaking in an electrical part. I always thought they worked or they were broke. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

FOMOGO