Exhaust/Intake

[DSTRBD]

Thanks DSTRBD. You definitely have the best price on the exhaust. If I order the Pro Series kit it comes with a down-tube?

Yes, the down-pipe is included in the kit.

[NYB]

Originally Posted by DSTRBD

"T304 is the best of the best and will always look good..."

How much time does a truck spend on it's side... or upside down? Hopefully, not anytime at all... cause that usually means equal time spent in an ambulance. So with the truck upright on it's tires, how good does the exhaust pipe have to look if no one sees it?

More importantly, on what basis is 304 "the best of the best"??? Because it looks brighter and blingier?

As an austenitic stainless steel, 304 (18% Chrome 8% Nickel) has a higher coefficient of thermal expansion, and as such, is more vulnerable to thermal fatigue from exhaust heat cycling. The exhaust system can expand and contract an inch or more over it's length during operation.

That's why OEMs only use 304 at just the tip, where A) the exhaust is relatively coolest, therefore B) it will have expanded/contracted the least, and incidently C) the tip is the only part of the exhaust system that is visible anyway when the truck is upright, so the bright and shiny aspect can be appreciated.

Besides, as good as 304 is in terms of surface corrosion resistance at lower temperatures, for those periods of time when it is operating at high temperatures (above 800C) it it still vulnerable to chemical reactions with deicing salts used on the roads in cold regions. One needs to have some more Nickel and/or a bit more Silicon content in the steel to fight that crud.

304 for a full length exhaust system is a waste of money for under chassis parts that no one sees, that can still corrode under certain (less common) conditions, and that will always be more vulnerable to stress cracking from thermal cycling than the OEM specified and more commonly used ferritic type of stainless steel 409 (11% Chromium, with Titanium and other stuff).

While 409 ferritic maybe inferior to austenitic 304 in high temperture strength when 100% constrained, 409's smaller coefficient of thermal expansion is definitely more advantageous in thermal fatigue life cycle properties at realistic (partial) constraint ratios. Since an exhaust pipe is somewhat free to grow that inch via flexible hangars and clearance space around it, it is not 100% constrained. It is only partially constrained, and it WILL grow and shrink with temperature changes.

Originally Posted by DSTRBD

"S&B is fairly new to the market..."

S&B has been around a long time. They were manufacturing (ie... private labeling) air filters to and through other well known aftermarket intake sales companies not quite a decade ago. One just never saw the "S&B" brand name, cause they were only selling business to business to other "manufacturer's" who were promoting their own name.

[PStroked444]

WOW!!

[DSTRBD]

WOW. T304 is the highest grade stainless available for diesel trucks, period. That is what I meant. If he wants a stainless system that will not rust, T304 is the only option. T409 will develop surface rust, T304 will not. Thanks for the lecture though.

When I said S&B is fairly new to the market, that is what I meant. They just started making their own diesel intake kits. I know they have been around for a while. Again, thanks for the update though.

[NYB]

Hey, I know you are a supporting vendor and all, but you again said:

Originally Posted by DSTRBD

"T304 is the highest grade stainless available for diesel trucks, period. Thanks for the lecture though."

I wasn't meaning to lecture in the least.

I was just disagreeing with your premise, and if I'm going to disagree in a friendly way, I should at least try to back it up with a few simple facts.

T304 in fact is not the highest grade stainless available for diesel trucks." Unperiod. There are more "grades", or alloys, of stainless used in exhaust systems other than the two mentioned above, and some of those alloys have properties that are "better" than both 304 and 409. A lot better, if mechanical performance, formability, and longevity is considered.

With DPFs, multiple catalysts, and regeneration systems, along with higher entrance exhaust temperatures, the demand (actually, the regulatory mandate) for higher performing stainless steels was met with many advancements during the last 10 years. And by performance (of the metal at service operating temperatures, not the truck) comparison, 304 is down on the lower rung of the ladder. Hardly the highest. It's pretty though.

[DSTRBD]

So where are these systems that are better? T304 is show quality, T409 is not. T304 will not rust, T409 will. Lets not make this more than what it is. Either system will last longer than the truck will be on the road anyway.

[BlueMuleTrucking]

NYB Thanks for the response. Maybe I'll save the couple hundred bucks and just get 304 stainless tips. Pretty much my parts list for the future is Gauges, Exhaust, and Intake. I don't really think I want or need the power of a programmer.

[steelhorse1]

cool air intake amust..i'd look at the 4 1/2" down pipe with 5" exhaust..works great on my 2000 f250

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by BlueMuleTrucking

I don't really think I want or need the power of a programmer.

My thoughts exactly - before I drove my truck with a mild towing chip. I was dragging the 5er on a 120-mile jaunt to the hot-rodder to install my TurboRamAir intake. I already had a Walker BTM muffler, but needed a much-better intake. And on that jaunt I remember thinking "Why would anybody need more horses than this?"

Then we installed the TurboRamAir intake and did some tests. The Western Diesel owner was there, and wanted me to do those same tests with his 60-tow chip installed. So why not? The truck ran much better with the chip installed. After the tests the Western Diesel guy "forgot" to uninstall his chip. So I drug that 5er all over the country with that chip. Later, the PCM went south and the chip wouldn't work in the new PCM. I made one long trip from west Texas to Seattle and back without a chip. As soon as I got home from that trip I contacted Jerry Schmidt at GOS Performance and ordered the Edge Evo tuner. Once I was used to the increased performance of the towing chip, I didn't want to live without it. The Edge Evolution 60-horse setting was very similar to the tune in the Western Diesel TurboChip, so I was a happy camper.

Then along came a guy named Jody Tipton, who quickly gained a reputation as a guru for tuning 7.3L engines. For a short time, Jody could replace the tunes in the original Edge Evo with DP-Tuner tunes. So I had that done. I haven't done a lot of towing since then, but a few hundred miles using 40-tow and a few hundred miles using 60-tow. Both those are better than my Edge 60-horse tune was.

So even though I don't "need" my tuner, you'll get it away from me only by prying it from my "cold dead fingers", as the gun nuts say.

The big sell for 60-tow? The engine has enough horses to not downshift for every little bump in the road. The stock engine had to be reving at 1,900 RPM in order not to downshift often when grossing 16,000 pounds. That's about 67 MPH, which is too fast for good fuel economy. With 60-tow, I can cruise at 1,800 RPM (62 MPH) and rarely downshift while getting over 12 MPG on the Plains. And if I kick it up to 1,900 RPM, it requires a serious mountain pass to make it downshift out of overdrive.

[NYB]

Originally Posted by DSTRBD

So where are these systems that are better?

Good question! Just where exactly are these exhaust systems that incorporate evolved alloys of stainless steels, like XM15J1, 409L-A1, 429, 430, 430J1L, 436, 436L, 436J1L, 444, etc?

Why, they are available everywhere, not for $299, not for $199, no, not even for $99. They are free for the taking, as found in trash dumpsters and metal recyling bins across the USA.

They are the engineered stock exhaust and catalyst systems that people throw away, so they can spend more money on the prettier systems that don't expand and contract as forgivingly.

Don't shoot... this isn't a lecture... just an opinion.

[DSTRBD]

LOL!!! Well, since the stainless kits we sell come with Lifetime Warranties, there are no worries.