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Old 09-21-2005, 06:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Grounding The Map Sensor.

Back in the day my banks level 5 big hoss chip said to do this, when I dumped that chip and went to a ts chip i kept it there, now im getting my truck back from a rebuild and im putting in a Dp tuner chip, should I discontinue grounding the map And get a boost relief valve? or is grounding the Map ok?
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

Grounding your MAP sensor is not the best choice to get rid of the SES light.

Look into our DRV++
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Old 09-21-2005, 07:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

We've found that the ground wire type devices for controlling MAP readings can have negative effects during lower boost operation as well. Since you're getting your chip from Jody (presumably), ask him what he recommends.

We recommend using a regulator type device like our OVERBOOST KIT. Check the link, lots of good reading and viewing. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 09-21-2005, 10:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

The wire that came with your Banks kit is not merely a ground wire. It is a 4.6 volt zener diode. This limits the return reference voltage so the pcm does not see excessive boost.
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Old 09-22-2005, 12:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

JMS,

Nice info! This is surely the PRIMO way to do the MAP sensor limiting and cheap as hell!

And may I add, MORE RELIABLE!

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Old 09-22-2005, 12:29 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

[ QUOTE ]
JMS,

Nice info! This is surely the PRIMO way to do the MAP sensor limiting and cheap as hell!

And may I add, MORE RELIABLE!

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the zener diode is EXACTLY what we've replaced a number of because of low boost drivability problems. Removal of the diode grounding wire immediately solved the problem in every case we've been asked to look at.
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Old 09-22-2005, 01:41 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

Dennis,

Your right, I need to look over this a bit more. All the other sensors are electronic capacitive sensors with and analog output.

I am looking at the PCM schematics (yes I have them, don't ask how) but the MAP sensor is a DIGITAL output signal. A zener can not be used here. Somebody must have looked at this with a meter and did not understand it is a VF output. If using the wrong type of meter it may have looked like and increasing analog output but instead they were reading duty cycle if an increasing frequency signal.

I am going to put the scope on it tommorrow and get back to you.

Thanks for setting me straight, it caused me to look into this a little deeper.

Go figure Ford would make this sensor different than the BMP and EBP sensors!


[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]
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Old 09-22-2005, 07:43 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

Now that is good information to know. When I purchased my Banks big head it came with that zener diode wire and had directions where to terminate. It would be nice to know if it turns out not to function correctly. I do not believe I have had problems, however if it is a poor way to control the MAP please post your findings. I will be giving Dennis a call to order something more improved.
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

I run the zener from the Banks kit, and when I had the propane in the PS2000 kit, it came with a brv, so I ran it for a while instead. Then after I put the new engine in the truck, [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] I reinstalled the zener because the propane went out with the old motor.

I can't tell any difference. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

My T-tap came loose one time because I had inadvertantly hit it when installing a post-turbo probe for the TTM and other than setting the SES with overboost, I would have never known.

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Old 09-22-2005, 08:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

I would reccomend you do a lot more reading before doing any modifications on the MAP sensor. There are several ways to defeat it. The most proven method is an inline relief valve. This has been used in many Turbo application and continues to be the number one proven method.

An adustable valve (Made for power tools) put in-line may work, but can give different readings as it relies on the amount of pressure supplied to control the output of the valves. I used it before, and when I changed the settings on my chip to run on a lower setting, it did not allow enough pressure to the MAP sensor and the truck ran like crap.

The Relief valve only opens when you are producing 24+ lbs of boost, and as tiny as they are, there is virtually no loss of boost pressure. I measeured 1 lbs of boost loss at 40 PSI, and I could not get any reading loss below that at the intake side.

You can check it on your compressor, and see exactly how it does not work. Add a boost gauge on the out put side, set it to about 24 lbs, while providing 40+ lbs of pressure to it. Lower the input pressure from your compressor to 20 lbs and see the results on your gauge, it should read much lower than 20.

You could also fool the MAP sensor using max resistor values at the connector and completly bypassing.

Another option is to raise the defuel value in the programing ascpect.
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

I tried using a "relief valve" to keep from setting the ses from too much boost. But....... a relief valve is the same thing as a boost leak, just controlled. Get the over-boost kit from Dennis. This way you aren't blowing off boost, your just regulating the pressure that the map is seeing. I have had no more problems since doing this.
Let your wastegate control how much you get rid of instead of the valve in your map.

When you talk to Jody, ask him about this and see what he says.
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

And another shameless plug.... DMI Boost Pressure Relief Valve
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Old 09-22-2005, 10:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

[ QUOTE ]
Dennis,

Your right, I need to look over this a bit more. All the other sensors are electronic capacitive sensors with and analog output.

I am looking at the PCM schematics (yes I have them, don't ask how) but the MAP sensor is a DIGITAL output signal. A zener can not be used here. Somebody must have looked at this with a meter and did not understand it is a VF output. If using the wrong type of meter it may have looked like and increasing analog output but instead they were reading duty cycle if an increasing frequency signal.

I am going to put the scope on it tommorrow and get back to you.

Thanks for setting me straight, it caused me to look into this a little deeper.

Go figure Ford would make this sensor different than the BMP and EBP sensors!


[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Research the archives [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I conducted extensive testing on this over 4 years ago [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Bottom line............use a regulator [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 09-22-2005, 11:34 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Re: Grounding The Map Sensor.

[ QUOTE ]
Research the archives [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I conducted extensive testing on this over 4 years ago [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Bottom line............use a regulator [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed...with a few recommendations...

1. Use a HIGH QUALITY regulator and you won't have the problems mentioned by WildBill. The setup we use doesn't care if we input 15psi or 40psi, it reads CORRECT boost pressure post regulator until is reaches the max set point. There are cheap regulators that may not perform as well.

2. Don't spend hours building yourself a boost leak testing system and searching for leaky intercooler boots or MAP hoses with clamps that aren't tight enough only to INSTALL A LEAK later by putting in a boost relief valve. Anytime a relief valve opens, you have a leak...period!
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