How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
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Upgrades and Aftermarket - 99 & up 7.3L Engine Upgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 1999-Up Super Duty or Excursion with 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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Old 09-20-2006, 05:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

One of our beloved moderators, Teamroper60, was helping me understand how important torque was since I have such a hard time with it, but for some reason decided to stop explaining it to me part-way through our pm's.

I had intended to stay off of the forums, but I still don't understand this.

The problem for me, is that I think we were making progress, but he left one particular question unanswered for me.

I asked how much torque is required to be competitive in, and to win the mod pulling class that as of yet, no true powerstroke has even had half a chance in.

I am only asking, because if someone can just figure how much we need, then we can have something to shoot for.

For instance. Lets say we all decided that if we could just get a powerstroke to make 10,000ft/lbs of torque, that we would surely win the mod class.

For instance, if 10,000ft/lbs was deemed sufficient to win.....we could just take a powerstroke making 1000ft/lbs (easily done on stock rods) and simply put a 10:1 planetary gear reduction box bolted to the crankshaft between the engine and the transmission. That way we would have 10,000ft/lbs of torque going directly into the transmission.

Don't y'all think that would work? Or do we need more than 10,000ft/lbs of torque?

I don't know.

We could do a 10:1 planetary box into another 10:1 planetary box and have 100,000ft/lbs of torque on tap.

Do y'all think that would win the mod class?

Is 100,000ft/lbs enough to win? I don't know, I've never pulled. I do think it's strange that the other trucks in the mod class hardly even make 1500ft/lbs though? Why does it seem like we need so much more torque than them?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
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Old 09-20-2006, 06:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

You can make 1,000,000 lbft to the wheels, but if you can't turn that into some serious wheel speed, you will not win pulling or dragging.

You need to think HP not Torque.

Remember, both sports are racing. In drag racing, you are racing a competitor and the clock, in pulling, your racing that weight box.

Good chance you've opened a can of worms. Enjoy them.

Hybrid, meet Hybrid-away. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

This may be good.

Plenty of posts about torque, to many actually. do a search, and get ready for the long posts I am sure will follow. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Take care,

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Old 09-20-2006, 06:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

Grinder,

It was a rhetorical question.

Hybrid is entirely aware that hp is required, not torque.

He just wants to keep discussing the topic for some reason.

Hybrid, some will never understand. You have made your point repeatedly. If they don't get it, who the hell cares?
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Old 09-20-2006, 06:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

Well, unfortunately I've had it wrong this whole time. Now if we could just figure out how many ft/lbs we need to win the mod class or even how much to run 10's in the 1/4 mile, then I will personally just get the guys over at SCS to build us some planetary drive reduction boxes and we can have exactly the torque value that we need.

Just need to know a number in simple ft/lbs and we can start making the boxes. Seriously. No need to get all complicated. Lets just make some torque.

To start, I'll see if I can get them started on a 100:1 and a 10:1 box just to try. That way even if the 100,000ft/lbs from the 100:1 box doesn't go full pull, then we can put the 10:1 behind it for 1,000,000ft/lbs of torque [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] .

Now who could argue with 1 million ft/lbs of torque? Seriously. What's gonna slow that down?
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Old 09-20-2006, 07:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

What's gonna slow that down?

Lack of traction! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]
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Old 09-20-2006, 07:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

So how do you get enough traction to harness all that force then? Are you saying that was too much torque, and it will never get a hook?

I can see where 1 million ft/lbs might be overkill. So what about 10,000ft/lbs with the 10:1 planetary box? Could you get it to hook up and run away with the sled then?
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

[ QUOTE ]
You can make 1,000,000 lbft to the wheels, but if you can't turn that into some serious wheel speed, you will not win pulling or dragging.

[/ QUOTE ]



I have to agree with grinder, if you have 10,000 ft lbs of torque but you cant get it to the ground in terms of wheel speed, then your not going to win anything, watch the alcohol pullling tractors for example, like silver bullet or the roberts boys from r and l carriers and watch there wheel speed.you.ll be amazed if i remember right jordan from silver bullett runs 300 + mph dont bash if im wrong but im almost positive thats what he told me. i should have asked him last week when i spoke to him.
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

I don't understand what speed has to do with it? Now you're trying to complicate things by saying you have to make the torque and still spin fast.

What does speed have to do with it? keep it simple. How much torque do we need to beat the cummins motors in the mod class?

How many ft/lbs? With planetary gear boxes we can make however much you want.

Why would it matter how fast it was turning as long as it made 10,000ft/lbs to the tranny?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

give it up , no one cares
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

You have to get the power to the ground, and if you have 10,000 ft lbs of torque and you pull the sled at 1 mph, and if you have 1,000 ft lbs of torque and you pull the sled at for example 30 to 40 mph you will make it farther with the 1,000 ft lbs of torque, bottom line is you can have all the hp and torque you want but if you cant get it to the ground and have momentum then your going no where pulling.
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

[ QUOTE ]
give it up , no one cares

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you some people never learn.
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

I never ran across so many people spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on something they just don't care about.

All I ask is for someone to quantify just exactly how many ft/lbs we need to win [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] . I have learned a few things lately. One being that power is ficticious, it's just something made up by some guy talking about horses. You cannot even measure it.

But mainly, I have learned that the only real, measurable value is torque. Engines make torque, not power. Power is what dynos measure. And he with the most torque wins.

I just wondered why we didn't think of this before we spent so much money on all of these engines when we could have just used an off-the-shelf reduction box, and made multiple times the output torque right from the start.

Why is it wrong to ask how many ft/lbs we need? And why on earth have we waited so long to make the torque we need to win?

It just doesn't make sense. Am I missing something here? I don't think so.


On Edit:

If it's speed you want, then do the 10:1 box at the crank to give you over 10,000ft/lbs on most engines, and then just run a really tall axle gear to get the speed you need. Or put bigger tires on it.
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

Missing wheel speed
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

[ QUOTE ]


On Edit:

If it's speed you want, then do the 10:1 box at the crank to give you over 10,000ft/lbs on most engines, and then just run a really tall axle gear to get the speed you need. Or put bigger tires on it.



[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I guess I should have just done another post for that. That should get the speed back out of it.
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: How many Ft/lbs do we need to win the mod class/run low 10 sec quarter mile times?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand what speed has to do with it? Now you're trying to complicate things by saying you have to make the torque and still spin fast.

What does speed have to do with it? keep it simple. How much torque do we need to beat the cummins motors in the mod class?

How many ft/lbs? With planetary gear boxes we can make however much you want.

Why would it matter how fast it was turning as long as it made 10,000ft/lbs to the tranny?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Your posted question was two-fold

to run 10 second quarter mile times with your drivetrain spinning at 1/10,000 of it's normal speed you're going to have an awful hard time achieving any speed...

for pulling...your theory makes sense to me mathematically, however you'd have to multiply your traction by 10,000 to make up for the extra tq right?...by the time you were done you'd have one of those CAT dump trucks from the large gravel pits that you see on Mega-Machines and hell yeah it would win in any pulling competition!..but what would be the point?...It would be like bringing a tank to a paintball fight..
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