Upgrades and Aftermarket - GeneralUpgrading and adding aftermarket equipment to your 1999-2007 Super Duty. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are not engine-specific.
Okay so I have searched the threads for brake pads and rotors and I have found lots of controversy, on opinions which I expect to some degree so I am looking for a little clarification. In the past I used the OEM pads and rotors I got a great amount of life from them but they are very pricy so I wanted to get an idea about an alternative, I have used napa pads and they wore down very quickly. I don't tow anything heavy just a small zodiac inflatable boat with lots of scuba gear. What is a good brand pad and rotor to get that will help keep some $$ in the pocket and distance on the road?
__________________
2000 F250 4x4
Last edited by hucklejack : 09-27-2009 at 02:41 AM.
I have been using Powerslot Rotors with Hawk pads on mine, I tow a 9k trailer around and I have had the pads/rotors on for over 5 years now. Seem to be holding up fine and stop the truck great!
__________________
2002 F-350 CCLB 4X4, HD4R100 , 4" Diamond Eye exhaust, Powerslot rotors, DP Tuner-F6, Autoenginuity, KCM S.S. HPX Line, S&B Filters intake, Autometer gauge pod, Inovations canopy,Banks Big Head wastegate actuator, 6.0L Trans Cooler, Zoo-dad, Dieselsite Coolant Filter, DVD and always looking to do more....
They are pricey but they have the research and vehicle testing to back them up. Aftermarket pads may have some dyno testing done (extremely rare standardized vehicle testing), and that’s a big may, with the exception of the Motorcraft aftermarket pads which had been tested on vehicles for both stopping distance and wear / noise / dust, at least in the past.
Not that aftermarket cannot be a good choice to improve some aspects depending upon owner’s views.
The rotor situation has just gotten way overblown. People and mechanics keep using the term “warping” and equate the supposed “warp” to heat when in fact it has nothing to do with this. They change to an expensive, unneeded rotor option along with different pads and declare the expensive rotors are the fix; not acknowledging they also changed the friction material.
Obviously your driving characteristics sound like your in the zone where rotor wear is high enough that improper rotor wear is not occurring, unless you neglected to mention rotor issues.
The OE pads will have the most in-stop stable friction, best wear, and best noise abatement amendments. Its weakness in this application is that it’s in the lower friction level (higher pedal effort) and low rotor abrasiveness. Not that it’s friction level is that bad with OE sized tires, but the overall brake design size does not have a margin for tire leverage changes. I thought the braking was good with my ’01 F-250.
What your looking for in rotors are ones that are machined well with low runout tolerances, cast well with low variance in thickness variations and inclusions. You also don’t want to waste money on enhancements geared towards racing that are unnecessary. If you towed heavy though mountains, or towed heavy with larger then stock tires, then slotted rotors may be an option, but even under those circumstances the usefulness is questionable if you’re using quality, temperature resistant pads.
Brake parts are truly the child of the statement “you get what you pay for”. Of all automotive parts, it’s the one area that historically been hammered with competitive pricing. Although I will say that ALL of the auto manufacturers do change a premium price for their “OE” parts. They know the tightness of specifications that they use compared to the A/M and use that leverage. Myself, I use OE rotors as I am willing to pay that premium for that piece of mind. But the higher priced offering do provide as good of life and performance. Ford offers their Motorcraft line of rotors, which if you look on the box are from Federal-Mogul, the parent company of Wagner. The rotors are the same, but Ford rotors go though different machining to tighten up the specs towards OE quality. Wagner’s also give many people good life, as do the higher priced rotors from NAPA and other stores. If you do go though rotors, the Wagner’s or other brands that carry lifetime warranties are a good deal.
There are no perfect friction materials. All compromise on some level. It takes a lot of work to develop a pad to achieve the performance, integrity, and NVH (noise/vibration/harshness) within an acceptable zone, and it all depends what your willing to enhance and compromise. The NAPA pads you mentioned probably were a lower price and quiet. Less costly resins and processes keep the price down and reduce the propensity for noise. At the compromise of wear.
I personally switched my OE pads on my ’03 to Performance Friction “Z” pads to increase the friction level at the expensive of some low brake pressure brake squeal. I can live with that. The PF are also more stable at very high temperature ranges, higher then I would drive at, but still provide the wear life that the OE did. But I went with 285 tires and noticed the increase in pedal force, and the harder time my truck had locking the tires. There was a change in the ’03 and up actuating system which increased the PE requirements, more then I cared for, although very acceptable to NHTSA and Ford requirements, just not mine. If this was an ’05 and up with it’s different friction material, I would have been fine.
Many like the Hawk pads, and if I was using very oversize tires, I might go there. They provide many of the same benefits as the “Z” pads with a little higher friction level, but I don’t really care for the in-stop increase in friction towards the end of the stop rather then a consistent friction level.
Other aftermarket pad can provide similar characteristics, but you have to stay in the high priced range. There is no free lunch.
__________________
Jack
Former Vehicle Test Manager - Friction Products
I appreciate the information and it helps. I really don't tow much so if I decide to go with a brake pad and rotor combo such as woodnthings8 is using and I am not towing am I more likley to see the wheels lock up or more noise? I am not sure if I feel the investment is worth it if I am not towing heavy loads, I am a little on the fence.
I bought my set-up because my rotors had a surge in them when I bough the truck. I have never been a big fan of re-surfacing them so I wanted to replace them. I checked out prices for stock and the ones I bought. I got these as cheap or cheaper than stock parts from a local parts store. If your rotors are good just replace the pads. My set-up is not for towing only, my trailer had plenty capable brakes, you should be thinking about the 8500# truck you are driving. With anti lock brakes you will not be locking them up either.
__________________
2002 F-350 CCLB 4X4, HD4R100 , 4" Diamond Eye exhaust, Powerslot rotors, DP Tuner-F6, Autoenginuity, KCM S.S. HPX Line, S&B Filters intake, Autometer gauge pod, Inovations canopy,Banks Big Head wastegate actuator, 6.0L Trans Cooler, Zoo-dad, Dieselsite Coolant Filter, DVD and always looking to do more....
I appreciate the information and it helps. I really don't tow much so if I decide to go with a brake pad and rotor combo such as woodnthings8 is using and I am not towing am I more likley to see the wheels lock up or more noise? I am not sure if I feel the investment is worth it if I am not towing heavy loads, I am a little on the fence.
Halk's don't have a lot of noise reports on this forum, probably less then I've seen with the PFs. You could go with the rotors if they give you more of a comfortable feeling about the brakes.
With a 2000, I'm not sure if you have four wheel ABS or RABS. Having the wheels lock is not a problem with 4WABS, neither with RABS with some practice. But the 4WABS needs a little more concern to the braking balance, and therefore choices between the friction materials front to rear dependign on use of the vehicle.
Do you feel you have tire skid issues?
__________________
Jack
Former Vehicle Test Manager - Friction Products
Do you get more airflow with directional vane vs straight vane rotors?
Directional vanes flow more then straight. Straight generally more then post vane.
The '99 to '04 use a post vane, actually a modified post vane which is an interesting design. The '05+ use a straight vane. The pictures below from my Webshots shows the difference.
There is some discussion which cools better, the post vane with more vane surface area or a straight vane pumping more air. The '99-04 use the normal posts but interspersed with other posts that are shaped as vanes to pump more air.
__________________
Jack
Former Vehicle Test Manager - Friction Products
Woodn was referring to the vehicle weight, I believe.
PFs are the initials for Performance Friction.
Having ABS I would not worry about locking up too early, although when we used to run LA tests it was always interesting on a rain day with the road oil. I'd rather be driving in snow.
If you use ABS to it's full extent you can get better stopping distance; only a pro test driver can do better.
Controlling a tire to an incipient skid point, the maximum deceleration point, is an acquired skill. The problem with that is you may not be stopping as short as you possibly can. Just because the front or rear tires are at incipient skid doesn't mean the opposite axle tires are at their maximum deceleration capacity. So the trick is to learn to push harder and let the ABS control the skid at all the wheels.
If a vehicle is perfectly balanced, then a trained driver can usually beat ABS in stopping distance, but if a vehicle, especially a pickup, was perfectly brake balanced at light weight it would not be at full weight GVW. And the same the other way around. Even with the dynamic brake proportioning that we have.
__________________
Jack
Former Vehicle Test Manager - Friction Products
hucklejack, I look forward to your findings. For I am just as confused between marketing hype and internet lore. I'd be looking for quality+value, not extreme performance, not cheap quality. I hear replacing rotors is a lot of work. I'd want long wearing rotors, and rotors that don't warp. Pads are easy to replace, so wouldn't mind if I had to replace them often if I gained a benefit from somewhere else.
Jake
__________________
2000 F-250 7.3L Powerstroke. Build date 08/99.
Last edited by snakyjake : 09-28-2009 at 12:39 PM.
Okay so I see a little humor here, since the purchase of my PS, I have never replaced the rotors, only the pads and have turned the rotors once... So at what point do you need to replace rotors, how will I know when I have reached this point?
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
Linear Mode
