Accident question - Diesel Forum

CAMPINGTOM · 04-23-2009, 06:14 AM

I was in an accident while pulling a 30' boat. I was hit on the front left and ended up driving over a pretty steep curb with the boat. A Ford dealership did the repair work. The truck pulls or drifts to the left and the dealership can not figure it out. They have been over the suspension, steering, braking, alignment and said everything checks out the way it should. One wheel and tire have been replaced and it was installed on the rear of the truck. The bed is out of line with the cab, but they say the frame is not bent and the bed did not shift on the frame. I have a Reese fifth wheel hitch with the rails bolted through the bed to the frame. No bolts/nuts look like they have moved. Any ideas what could be causing the drifting issue?

FMTRVT · 04-23-2009, 09:07 AM

You need to get it checked out at a better store.

You've got two physical changes. One that affects the track of the vehicle and the other that shows in appearance. This after a collision. And the Ford store says nothing is wrong? It's just beyond their comprehension.

It’s possible that a tire is involved with the drift. You could have all the tires checked on a Hunter 9700, or just rotate all tires left to right and right to left. If the pull goes with the tire side, then it's a tire.

If a knuckle was not changed and there is now an alignment issue, then something is bent compared to before. If they changed a knuckle, then the alignment guy may have brought the caster/camber/toe into spec, but not ideal. But that's all he knows.

The bed could move under the hitch, but if it didn't then the cab mounts could have moved. Or the frame is whacked.

Collision repair is only as good as the shop doing the work. The reason they can't find a problem is that they did the best they could do. We've all experienced situations in our life where a professional can't find a problem when another one does. Mechanic, electrician, plumber, dentist, doctor ....

Asking people to diagnose what is wrong from their computer is just going to add to more angst when going to the store and telling them that guys on-line think it might be ....... The only way to know what's going on other then the tire situation is to put it on both an alignment rack and a frame rack and measure what the situation is. Or get a dartboard. But first tell the shop your unhappy with the situation and going to get it checked by another facility. If they realize their limitations, they will ask for the vehicle back and take it elsewhere themselves.

And I would get the insurance company notified of the situation because most likely they are going to be out more money.

CAMPINGTOM · 04-23-2009, 10:16 AM

Thanks for the help. First, they have moved the new tire to all four corners and it always pulls to the left. The front left knuckle was replaced. The truck has been back four times to try to resolve this. I did notify my insurance company. I even met their "Collision Specialist" at the dealership to try to get things resolved. At that time they thought it was a steering issue, but like I said earlier - steering checks out fine. I'm not too worried about the bed being out of line, but I wonder if the cause of that is also the cause for the pulling.

FMTRVT · 04-23-2009, 06:58 PM

Sounds like you've been on top of it.

As GrampyJim probably will attest to if he joins this discussion, there's "in spec" and then there's tuning the alignment for going down the road straight. The second fits into the wider of being in spec.

Off hand, did the insurance collision specialist drive the vehicle and feel the drift? Any comment from him?

If the bed and cab do not line up like they did before, then either they moved on the mounts (not causing drift) or the frame is bent or racked. Any idea if the frame was up on a frame rack and measured? How exactly is the alignment different?

Is the vehicle lifted or the rear springs altered in the trucks life? Just thinking if the rear axle may have moved it's perch with a sheared off locating bolt. Has anyone from behind the vehicle noticed if it is dog tracking?

jimmy · 04-23-2009, 07:30 PM

The torsion bar in the power steering box assist control valve can be bent and instead of being centered at no assist it is twisted and gives a little left assist.
Jack up front end so that both wheels are free of ground and then start engine and take it to 1500 rpm and see if the steering wheel turns left on it on.
I'm assuming the alignment has been verified by someoen that knows more than to see if the alignment computer screen shows indicators in green bands. The postive caster being greater on the left than on the right but the caster for each side being within acceptable limits can still cause pull.
The kingpin inclination (may be called steering axis inclination on some equip.) can be off too much with even caster and still cause pull.
Do you know if they had to use any camber wedge shims?

FMTRVT · 04-23-2009, 11:28 PM

Tom (?),

I think you got the attention of a very good source.

nasty50 · 04-23-2009, 11:33 PM

just because you went to the dealership to have it fixed means nothing. It sounds to me like your frame is "diamond"- which means one entire rail has moved back and the other rail stayed put. This will cause it to pull one way but still line up on the rack being that the wheel base doesnt change. your bed probably has a wider gap on one side than the other. If you look you should also see that one side of the bed sticks out farther than the other side. gaps will not change between bed and bumper(normally). so dont let them play that one on you. Lots of "bodymen" are scared of pulling a full frame vehicle or dont know how properly, so they disguise what they can and blame everything else untill there is nothing left to replace or blame. Tell them you want a printout of your frame specs before and after they pulled it, bet they wont have them, printer is broke or something. guy most likely pulled out the old tape measure and said thats good enough. good luck with your truck hope you get it fixed. oh yea call the insurance company that paid the claim and complain, tell them you want it measured at a different shop and they will pay for it but be persistant.

uhaul · 04-24-2009, 12:49 AM

These other guys got it right, I agree with all of them, I know a guy who had the rear hitch and frame rails bent down to the ground almost 90 degrees from a hard rear end hit and the dealer was just gonna bend it back and weld a couple plates to stiffen it up, but this truck regularlly pulls a fully loaded 24' enclosed trailer and the owner had to get a lawyer involved before they would replace the frame, so now he has a 1 year old truck thats had a frame off restoration, and thats not a good thing. wish you could sue for lost resale value.

CAMPINGTOM · 04-24-2009, 11:39 AM

FMTRVT: The insurance specialist did not drive the truck.
Truck is 2 wheel drive and has no lift or any other suspension mods.
It does not appear to be dog tracking.

Nasty50: They have not given me any reports. They told me the frame was "measured", but I'm pretty sure that meant with a tape measure. Your diamond theory makes sense to me.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I feel better knowing that there is some hope this can be fixed correctly. I really like this truck and I don't want to buy another diesel until the 2011's prove themselves.

nasty50 · 04-24-2009, 07:27 PM

not trying to sound like a butthole but it isnt a theory. I am a body tech myself i do this stuff every day. so take a good look at your truck and see if there are any indications of what i described and go for it. by the way the insurance "specialist" is just someone that is trained to write an estimate. they dont know much at all dont let em fool ya.

CAMPINGTOM · 04-24-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nasty50

not trying to sound like a butthole but it isnt a theory. I am a body tech myself i do this stuff every day. so take a good look at your truck and see if there are any indications of what i described and go for it. by the way the insurance "specialist" is just someone that is trained to write an estimate. they dont know much at all dont let em fool ya.

You don't sound like a butthole. "Theory" was a bad choice of words. I realize the "specialist" is just an estimator. I've gotten the ok to take it to another dealership.
Thanks again for the help. I'll keep you posted.

GrampyJim · 04-25-2009, 11:26 AM

Where to begin?

In accident repair, one of the first things I do is "string" the car/truck.... like the name implies, I use a piece of string to see how well the rear wheels are following the front. This isn't a conclusive test but will reveal if there is a concern quickly. I use this to determine if setting up my machine is going to be a waste of time.

Like FMT says, it isn't enough to have alignment measurements "in spec".... the left and right sides need to have a relationship to each other... Additionally, I am always afraid when I am told "We have checked everything and it is good"

Define "everything" and define "good". Where I work, my job is to fix those things that can't be fixed... I am nothing special.. I make some unique mistakes (which, thankfully, I learn from)... but I am thorough....

There are "magic bullets" to be found in internet forums... Some people come back from Las Vegas with more money than they went with...

FWIW.... why didn't the tech doing the alignment notice the pull on his final road test?

CAMPINGTOM · 04-27-2009, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrampyJim

Where to begin?

In accident repair, one of the first things I do is "string" the car/truck.... like the name implies, I use a piece of string to see how well the rear wheels are following the front. This isn't a conclusive test but will reveal if there is a concern quickly. I use this to determine if setting up my machine is going to be a waste of time.

Like FMT says, it isn't enough to have alignment measurements "in spec".... the left and right sides need to have a relationship to each other... Additionally, I am always afraid when I am told "We have checked everything and it is good"

Define "everything" and define "good". Where I work, my job is to fix those things that can't be fixed... I am nothing special.. I make some unique mistakes (which, thankfully, I learn from)... but I am thorough....

There are "magic bullets" to be found in internet forums... Some people come back from Las Vegas with more money than they went with...

FWIW.... why didn't the tech doing the alignment notice the pull on his final road test?

The tech admits that it is pulling, but blames it on the one new wheel/tire.

nasty50 · 04-27-2009, 09:44 PM

put the new tire on the back and see what happens. or put the new tire on the other side and see if it pulls in a different direction.

CAMPINGTOM · 04-29-2009, 01:21 PM

Moving the new tire from front to back and side to side didn't make any difference. I took the truck to a shop that specializes in truck alignment and suspension. They said that the alignment was technically in spec, but they fine tuned the alignment and now the truck drives straight again. The body work still sucks and the bed is still out of line with the cab, but at least it drives straight!!!

Thanks again for everyone's help. GrampyJim - you were right again.