Buying a Box Truck for Personal Use?

[do_lai]

I am considering the purchase of a box truck for a massively interstate move in a few months. Then I would plan on using the truck for recreational purposes. What are the rules and regulations that apply?

I don't have and don't intend to get a CDL anytime soon, so what I am looking at will be something like a Freightliner FL70, International 4300, etc. I understand that I will be limited to 26k lbs GVWR and this will be for personal, not-for-hire use.

Specifically...
1. Will I have to register with DOT in any way?
2. What insurance is necessary and what will it cost, roughly?
3. Will I need to stop at weigh stations and, if so, what will I need to do there?
4. What kind of documentation will I need to carry?
5. Can the truck be capable of more, but be registered for 26k lbs GVWR? What is the procedure for registering a truck for less than its capable GVWR (I am in California)?
6. Can the truck have air brakes?

Any pointers would be appreciated; I have found gov't sites to be totally unhelpful for this situation.

Thanks.


EDIT: It seems from some research that the right way to go would be to register the truck as an RV. Does anyone know what is involved with that? Thanks.

[do_lai]

Bumping for the above edit...

[timid1]

For certain, the truck **cannot** have air brakes if you want to avoid having a CDL. Air brakes automatically mean CDL.

As for registering it with anything other than its intended GVWR, I don't think you can do that. It goes by what it is, not what you will be using it as.

Insurance? Don't want to sound like a smart ass but you should probably call your insurance company as your rates are specific to you, the vehicle you will purchase, and how much you think you'll be driving it. :-D

Weigh stations? If you're hauling through California, I'd strongly suggest calling the CHP and asking them. They're the ones that will pull you over if you don't stop and you're supposed to.

Don't know the answers to your other questions.

[TowerRigger]

Another dumb question. Why don't you just rent a box truck like all the rest of us? Or buy a trailer?

[do_lai]

Timid1, thanks for the input. It looks like air brakes would be ok, according to what I found out below. Have you had a different experience? Insurance... it's a lot easier to tell the insurance company that the truck is a motor home if it is already registered as one. Weigh stations... yes, I agree. I will also talk to the respective agencies in the states that I will be traveling through.

TowerRigger, I'd like to use the truck as an RV later. I often camp on undeveloped BLM land and like to ride bikes out there as well. Trailers... I have a couple, and plan to tow one with the box truck / motor home and one with my pickup for the move.


So I called up the DMV and the CHP (California Highway Patrol) and got very positive responses. For the record, here's what I have found out so far:

1. RV Requirements
"Life support meeting ANSI specs", no specification mentioned
Four of items, as by federal law:
i. Cooking
ii. Refrigeration or ice box
iii. Self-contained toilet
iv. Heating or air conditioning
v. Potable water supply system including a faucet and sink.
vi. Separate 110 V to 125 V power supply or LP gas
The technician made mention of California Vehicle Code Section 362, which reads:
"A 'house car' is a motor vehicle originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached. A motor vehicle to which a camper has been temporarily attached is not a house car except that, for the purposes of Division 11 (commencing with Section 21000) and Division 12 (commencing with Section 24000), a motor vehicle equipped with a camper having an axle that is designed to support a portion of the weight of the camper unit shall be considered a three-axle house car regardless of the method of attachment or manner of registration. A house car shall not be deemed to be a motortruck." according to Legal Research Blog — Lawyers, Legal Websites, Legal News and Legal Resources.
The gentleman with the CHP agreed that these were the requirements.

2. Conversion Procedure
According to the DMV technician, receipts for the conversion must be collected and a "Statement of Facts" filled out. The vehicle will be inspected at a DMV office and "reclassified" as a motor home. Knowing the DMV, this will (1) certainly involve more forms and (2) probably be a point of great hassle as the inspector will not have ever done anything remotely like this task.

3. Weight considerations
According to the CHP, there is no limit on the total weight of a motor home, and no requirement for a different driver's license, so long as (1) the vehicle does not exceed 45' (in which case a Class B license would be required) and (2) the vehicle is not heavier than the plated GVWR.

4. Air brakes
According to the CHP, motor homes may have air brakes without any special license. I specifically asked, "If a truck already has air brakes, and I convert it to a motor home, do I need to remove them or have a special license to drive the truck?"

5. Weigh Stations
According to the CHP, there is no need to stop at weigh stations, but the fact that something that looks like a commercial truck passes a weigh station may arouse suspicion. Nonetheless, if the stopping CHP officer notes that the license plate number is one for a motor home, there should not be any issues (commercial vehicles and motor homes have different combinations of letters and numbers in California).

6. DOT Registration / Inspections
According to both the DMV and CHP, no registration or inspection required with DOT for motor homes.


Sources:
(a) California DMV, technicians generally don't know what they are talking about but are usually able to get information with some prodding (800) 777-0133
(b) California Highway Patrol, main line: (916) 681-2300
Commercial Vehicle Section: (916) 445-1865
The lady who picked up at the commercial vehicle section was able to transfer me to someone who really knew what was going on.


I'd be curious about the aspect of "life support meeting ANSI specifications" and whether or not this will be / has been be a point of hassle.

So, I've spilled everything I have found out thus far; hopefully this will be useful to others and it would be nice to find out about the experiences that others have had inside and outside California with similar situations.


Thanks!

[DWL/03/PSD]

12 years ago my folks bought an old u haul truck, made sure she was in road ready shape. Made three trips total when moving from WNY to Fl.
Sold truck for what he paid for it and took his time moving.
FWIW

[andrewbalser]

I've had plenty of interactions with DOT in various states. The Air-Brakes RV-exclusion is accurate for most, if not all, states. You can, in-fact, register a vehicle at a lower GVWR than what the manufacturer originally rated it as. I have driven trucks that fell into this category in the past, and the company I work for has thousands of power units, that once they reach 3 years of age, are registered for 50,000 gross instead of 80,000. (single-axle tractors) Saves the company lots of $$$. The only recommendation I can make is to inquire with states you are unfamiliar with when travelling about the weigh station/port of entry requirements. Travelling through Florida recently I noticed they now have an addendum on their sign that says something along the lines of "Rental/Moving trucks, also required to stop at scales". Obviously, they are getting stricter about who/what stops and who doesn't. My $ 0.02 +

=)

[Greasy_Dually]

To help in your conversion:

Ronthebusnut RV Surplus

Sells lots of conversion stuff, maybe he knows something about the "rules" as well.

[timid1]

Originally Posted by do_lai

Timid1, thanks for the input. It looks like air brakes would be ok, according to what I found out below. Have you had a different experience? Insurance... it's a lot easier to tell the insurance company that the truck is a motor home if it is already registered as one. Weigh stations... yes, I agree. I will also talk to the respective agencies in the states that I will be traveling through.

I was unaware that a "conversion" in the sense that you are pursuing would exempt you from that rule. I was also unaware that such a conversion would be allowed. In any case, my knowledge was pretty much limited to stock vehicles on the assumption that no conversion would be acceptable from a street-legal standpoint. Good luck!

[harmonjustin]

even if you register it under the 26k gvwr, but the truck is rated for more you will need a CDL. trust me...i got busted for not having a CDL and it is still costing me. i would just get a CDL and not worry about figuring out all the legalities.

[haul_n_horses2]

Originally Posted by timid1

For certain, the truck **cannot** have air brakes if you want to avoid having a CDL. Air brakes automatically mean CDL.

I know folks who do not have a CDL and who drive Volvo's converted to RVs. They have a sleeper cab and airbrakes. Look just like OTR truck except for one less axle (which was removed in the conversion). They tow their livestock all over the country but since the horses are not for sale and they are not being transported for commercial purposes, they never stop to scale etc. The vehicle is registered as a motorhome. Look here.

[2busy]

Originally Posted by do_lai

I am considering the purchase of a box truck for a massively interstate move in a few months. Then I would plan on using the truck for recreational purposes. What are the rules and regulations that apply?

I don't have and don't intend to get a CDL anytime soon, so what I am looking at will be something like a Freightliner FL70, International 4300, etc. I understand that I will be limited to 26k lbs GVWR and this will be for personal, not-for-hire use.

Specifically...
1. Will I have to register with DOT in any way?
2. What insurance is necessary and what will it cost, roughly?
3. Will I need to stop at weigh stations and, if so, what will I need to do there?
4. What kind of documentation will I need to carry?
5. Can the truck be capable of more, but be registered for 26k lbs GVWR? What is the procedure for registering a truck for less than its capable GVWR (I am in California)?
6. Can the truck have air brakes?

Any pointers would be appreciated; I have found gov't sites to be totally unhelpful for this situation.

Thanks.


EDIT: It seems from some research that the right way to go would be to register the truck as an RV. Does anyone know what is involved with that? Thanks.

I can't answer most of your questions but I'll tell you what we've found out so far about buying a box truck for personal use. We just bought a used U-Haul truck last week and haven't picked it up yet because we can't get a temporary permit until U-Haul mails us the title from Arizona. That was a little snag we didn't think of and neither did the Nevada U-Haul service center where we bought the truck, thinking we'd just drive it home, having already secured insurance and thinking a bill of sale and insurance would get us a temporary permit to move it. Not. You need the actual title, which we should have realized.

The first thing we found when preparing to go get the truck was that three local insurance companies told us that we would need commercial insurance. Why??? Because of the weight of the vehicle - although we had previously had non-commercial insurance on our motorhome which was in the same weight category (26K gvwr). Go figure. The broker wrote us a commercial insurance contract for a business established in 2008, even though we have no business and no business name is listed, and the details show that the vehicle is not being used for personal use. We still don't know what's up with that but we had no choice on the insurance because we had to take what they offered. And liability insurance is surprisingly cheap, costing about the same as liability on our little 1989 Dodge Dakota pickup. This may be because we're using a different insurance company. Our total for six months is $183 with Progressive; your experience may be different. So I guess we won't complain about being forced to buy commercial insurance for a vehicle that's only going to be on the road maybe twice, other than driving a few blocks from home to our storage unit. We drove our motorhome more than that and paid a lot more for the liability insurance. Once again, that may be due to difference between Farmers and Progressive.

We've been told we don't need a CDL for the air brakes because they are air-assisted hydraulic brakes. Since it was previously a rental, that pretty much confirms the information, because I know renters don't usually have CDLs.

After reading this thread, I guess we'll check with each state on our route to find out about their policies on weigh stations. I also like what I saw stenciled on a box truck being used for personal use - it said "not for hire" on both sides.

Our reason for buying this monster is so we can take our time loading and unloading and we can have brakes, etc., checked by our own mechanic before we get on the road. After all, this truck has been ridden hard and brought in to be put out to pasture. And when it's all over, maybe we'll get our money back.

We haven't considered conversion - already been there and done that back in the 70's with a big yellow school bus and we're too old and too short on time to do that again. But there are a couple of guys who have converted a U-Haul to toy hauler and motorhome at Po mans Toy Hauler project - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board .

If we get more information or run into more snags, I'll try to update this.

[DonWarkentin]

Originally Posted by do_lai

I am considering the purchase of a box truck for a massively interstate move in a few months. Then I would plan on using the truck for recreational purposes. What are the rules and regulations that apply?

I don't have and don't intend to get a CDL anytime soon, so what I am looking at will be something like a Freightliner FL70, International 4300, etc. I understand that I will be limited to 26k lbs GVWR and this will be for personal, not-for-hire use.

Specifically...
1. Will I have to register with DOT in any way?
2. What insurance is necessary and what will it cost, roughly?
3. Will I need to stop at weigh stations and, if so, what will I need to do there?
4. What kind of documentation will I need to carry?
5. Can the truck be capable of more, but be registered for 26k lbs GVWR? What is the procedure for registering a truck for less than its capable GVWR (I am in California)?
6. Can the truck have air brakes?

Any pointers would be appreciated; I have found gov't sites to be totally unhelpful for this situation.

Thanks.


EDIT: It seems from some research that the right way to go would be to register the truck as an RV. Does anyone know what is involved with that? Thanks.

You have two choices, either register as RV, or not as RV.

If you decide to register as RV, then you can either convert the back of the truck to an RV by adding the things that you listed below such as refrigerator, toilet, air conditioning, sink with running water, etc.; or, you can register it as an RV if it is only used to pull a travel trailer. In that case, you don't have to make the conversion, but you can only drive it when you are using it to pull the travel trailer. If you convert to RV, then the maximum length with class C license is 40 feet.

If you don't want to go through the expense and inconvenience to register as RV, then you can leave it registered as a truck. In that case, you will need to stop at weigh stations, you are limited to 26,000 gvwr and no more than two axles, and no more than 10,000 lbs trailer in California.

If you get a truck that is capable of carrying more than 26,000, be sure to have it registered as a 26,000 lb vehicle and do not carry more than 26,000 lbs. So there is no real advantage of doing that, because you will have to go through weigh stations, and if you are weighed above 26,000 lbs, then you will be fined for overweight as well as for not having class A license, and you will not be allowed to continue driving the truck until you have unloaded the extra weight. Also, a truck capable of carrying extra weight is going to weigh more than one capable of carrying only 26,000 lbs gvw; so if you are going to carry only 26,000 lbs gvw, then the payload of the lighter truck will actually be more than the payload of the heavier truck.

In California, whether or not it has air brakes does not matter as long as it is under 26,000 lbs, and only two axles. You can also drive 3 axles with class C license if it is 6,000 lbs gvwr or under, but that probably doesn't interest you.

Be sure to carry your driver's license, vehicle registration, and proof of insurance.