General QuestionsGeneral questions related to 1999-2007 Super Duty trucks. If it doesn't fit the other categories, post it here. Gas engine discussion that pertains to all models is allowed. Specific gas engine questions should use the Gas Engines forum.
How are my "warped" stock rotors unwarping themselves?
Maybe they aren't warped. Over the past 2 months, my brakes have gotten better. Two months ago I was afraid to hit the brake pedal. The truck would bounce like crazy. At this time of year, I use my dump trailer a lot and have noticed that my brakes are feeling less and less warped. There is still a small pulse, but NOTHING like i had 2 months ago. What do you think is actually happening?
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2002 F-250, PSD 6-speed, CC, short bed, 4X4, Toreador Red w/ Silver accent, A.R.E mx cap, Weld Super Single II and 33s in the summer, x-springs, F-350 blocks and badges, AIC, proflaps, ITP intank mod, AirDog with 3 micron filter, isspro guages and TTM, husky liners, alarm, xm stereo,stull 5399-p grille, centramatics, ccv mod, AIS Air Filter, Southbend CON O, Detroit Truetrac LSD, coolant filter, 203 stat with billet housing, blackcloud intake heater plug/boost fitting, reese titan hitch, fabcraft PTO cover/temp sender port, prodigy brake controller, ITP Boost Annihalator, oilguard bypass filter, Mag-Hytec rear dif, bilsteins, hellwig rear stabilizer bar, DP Tuner F5 - no start, stock, 40t, 60t, 80e and 80t, ATS housing, non-ebpv pedistal and exhaust flange, magnaflow 3.5dp exhaust, ITP reg return, turbomaster wastegate controller, and ceramic coated bellowed up pipes, currently 80,100 miles. truck Pictures
Re: How are my "warped" stock rotors unwarping themselves?
LOL. I have noted the same thing. My front rotors developed some disc thickness variation (DTV) shortly after driving the truck after a prolonged winter rest in my driveway (alternator and battery replacement). I had changed to PF Z-rated pads and had the rotors turned on the vehicle with a Pro-Lathe about 8 months before to deal with a DTV problem. It was back. Well within a few weeks of towing with a full horse trailer at max GCVW, the problem was slowly disappearing. I switched to the PF pads at FMTRVT's recommendation as they were more abrasive (higher µ ) and would "true" the rotors more than the OEM formulation. By the end of the summer no more pulsation. So I think your "warped rotors" can unwarp especially if braking with heavy loads and more abrasive aftermarket pads.
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2002 F350 Lariat CC 4x4 Auto 4.10 DRW, DP-Tuner F5 live tuned stock, quiet, 40dd, 40, 60, 80 tow, 80e and 120r, B&W GN, BrakeSmart, 'pooned tank, tank and pre-pump mods, 2µ Dahl 100 filter, regulated return, BTS dual HPOP, AC singles with EDM 34 lpm nozzles, AIS, H2e, Spearco 6.0 IC, Hypermax 3.5" dp--> MBRP 4" 304SS exhaust, BTS tranny, 203º T-stat, Chevron ELC, coolant filter, Oilguard bypass with Schaeffer 9000, WranglerNW 200 amp alternator & Optima group 31 batteries, Nippon-Denso starter, SPA gauges, SteveRacer mods, Hella 80/100W 9007s, Hella Micro DE foglights, 1000FF driving lights, 220W backup lights, Stancor contactor, Michelin XPS Traction tires, X-Springs, Bilstein shox, custom bumpers but otherwise stock. Nov 30 '99 build engine with 16 K miles, Fluidampr, Comp Cam 910 springs, Melling LPOP and ARP headstuds. Alien-Patrol Customer Service Sucks!
Re: How are my "warped" stock rotors unwarping themselves?
When I installed my ART Cryogenically-treated rotors, the installation instructions heavily emphasized a bedding-in procedure. The claim is that the procedure deposits a layer of pad material on the rotors that helps increase the friction. They say to re-do the procedure if the brakes exhibit any vibration.
It makes me wonder if the variations to this deposition layer are possible of exhibiting the same symptoms as warped rotors and thickness variation. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
I couldn't help but to also wonder if the same procedure wouldn't have re-applied this layer to my OEM rotors, thereby eliminating a potentialy unnecessary expense. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
After I bought them and installed them. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
I really like the extra stopping power that I now have, but if I had known then what I think I know now . . . I would have tried the bedding-in procedure on my OEM stuff before dropping $400 on aftermarket pads and rotors. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]
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"Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result." - Sir Winston Churchill
May your road stay clear & dry, may your fuel never gel, and may you never be outsmarted by your idiot lights.
Re: How are my "warped" stock rotors unwarping themselves?
As Hauln' noted, the primary issue with brake pulsation is that the rotors are worn unevenly to the ratio of rotor wear during brake applications, to rotor wear when a pad is touching the rotor during normal driving (non-braking event). For people that do a lot of highway driving, the OE material's rotor abrasion during is not enough to keep the rotor trued, if the pads are touching the rotor and not sliding to a fully retracted position. It's not a case of the rotors "warping" from heat. This occurrence can be aggravated if the rotors are stress distorted from improper lug nut attachment during a tire change or rotation.
In Hauln's case, if I remember correctly, he had already changed out to the PF pads earlier. After parking the vehicle during the winter and having some rust build up on the rotor (my belief), the oxidation wore away and the pulsation subsided as well.
Same in you case. Some uneven wear on the rotor developed, and now that your using the vehicle more like it was designed for (commercial application) the brake-on wear rate is higher and the rotors are trued.
If the situation was as simple as material transfer, a person could cure the issue with some light sanding of the rotors surface with some 120 grit abrasive. But that occurs with organic formulation on much lighter weight cars.
This is not the total answer for other cases, as other issues such as tire balance, bearing condition, and a host of others can allow a high rotor runout under operating conditions, wearing the rotor unevenly. And if the rotors were stress distorted for a good wile and have seen some thermal history under that condition, they can become permanently distorted. And if a pulsation condition is not corrected quickly, a hard spot can form in the rotors surface (including with cyro'd rotors) that will never be corrected. I could go on .....
Re: How are my "warped" stock rotors unwarping themselves?
so, maybe i should hold off on installing my new cryo rotors and hawk pads? I could see where this goes and if it gets even better over the next month. I will grease the slide pins first though. Any other suggestions? And there is no way I just am getting used to it. Stuff in the center console was getting ready to jump out and now it is a slight annoying pulse.
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2002 F-250, PSD 6-speed, CC, short bed, 4X4, Toreador Red w/ Silver accent, A.R.E mx cap, Weld Super Single II and 33s in the summer, x-springs, F-350 blocks and badges, AIC, proflaps, ITP intank mod, AirDog with 3 micron filter, isspro guages and TTM, husky liners, alarm, xm stereo,stull 5399-p grille, centramatics, ccv mod, AIS Air Filter, Southbend CON O, Detroit Truetrac LSD, coolant filter, 203 stat with billet housing, blackcloud intake heater plug/boost fitting, reese titan hitch, fabcraft PTO cover/temp sender port, prodigy brake controller, ITP Boost Annihalator, oilguard bypass filter, Mag-Hytec rear dif, bilsteins, hellwig rear stabilizer bar, DP Tuner F5 - no start, stock, 40t, 60t, 80e and 80t, ATS housing, non-ebpv pedistal and exhaust flange, magnaflow 3.5dp exhaust, ITP reg return, turbomaster wastegate controller, and ceramic coated bellowed up pipes, currently 80,100 miles. truck Pictures
Re: How are my "warped" stock rotors unwarping themselves?
That procedure is very similar to what Jack (FMTRVT) told me to do with my PF Z-rated carbon-metallic pads and OEM rotors except it was not necessary to stop fast. The energy kinetic energy converted to thermal energy is the same regardless of how fast you decelerate.
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2002 F350 Lariat CC 4x4 Auto 4.10 DRW, DP-Tuner F5 live tuned stock, quiet, 40dd, 40, 60, 80 tow, 80e and 120r, B&W GN, BrakeSmart, 'pooned tank, tank and pre-pump mods, 2µ Dahl 100 filter, regulated return, BTS dual HPOP, AC singles with EDM 34 lpm nozzles, AIS, H2e, Spearco 6.0 IC, Hypermax 3.5" dp--> MBRP 4" 304SS exhaust, BTS tranny, 203º T-stat, Chevron ELC, coolant filter, Oilguard bypass with Schaeffer 9000, WranglerNW 200 amp alternator & Optima group 31 batteries, Nippon-Denso starter, SPA gauges, SteveRacer mods, Hella 80/100W 9007s, Hella Micro DE foglights, 1000FF driving lights, 220W backup lights, Stancor contactor, Michelin XPS Traction tires, X-Springs, Bilstein shox, custom bumpers but otherwise stock. Nov 30 '99 build engine with 16 K miles, Fluidampr, Comp Cam 910 springs, Melling LPOP and ARP headstuds. Alien-Patrol Customer Service Sucks!
Re: How are my "warped" stock rotors unwarping themselves?
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe they aren't warped. Over the past 2 months, my brakes have gotten better. Two months ago I was afraid to hit the brake pedal. The truck would bounce like crazy. At this time of year, I use my dump trailer a lot and have noticed that my brakes are feeling less and less warped. There is still a small pulse, but NOTHING like i had 2 months ago. What do you think is actually happening?
[/ QUOTE ]
Whalp, you got added weight (trailer). Likely the thickness variation of brake material bedded on the disk has evened out through higher pressure application of the pads. I've found a stand-on-the-brakes stop or two to temporarily smooth out pulsation....
Try this: Retorque all wheels to 150 ft lb in the recommended way. Do it again a few weeks down the road. Amazing! The stresses from varying torque on the bolts will create pulsation where there should be none - uniform recommended torque can work wonders.
Re: How are my "warped" stock rotors unwarping themselves?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe they aren't warped. Over the past 2 months, my brakes have gotten better. Two months ago I was afraid to hit the brake pedal. The truck would bounce like crazy. At this time of year, I use my dump trailer a lot and have noticed that my brakes are feeling less and less warped. There is still a small pulse, but NOTHING like i had 2 months ago. What do you think is actually happening?
[/ QUOTE ]
Whalp, you got added weight (trailer). Likely the thickness variation of brake material bedded on the disk has evened out through higher pressure application of the pads. I've found a stand-on-the-brakes stop or two to temporarily smooth out pulsation....
Try this: Retorque all wheels to 150 ft lb in the recommended way. Do it again a few weeks down the road. Amazing! The stresses from varying torque on the bolts will create pulsation where there should be none - uniform recommended torque can work wonders.
Re: How are my "warped" stock rotors unwarping themselves?
[ QUOTE ]
so, maybe i should hold off on installing my new cryo rotors and hawk pads? I could see where this goes and if it gets even better over the next month. I will grease the slide pins first though. Any other suggestions? And there is no way I just am getting used to it. Stuff in the center console was getting ready to jump out and now it is a slight annoying pulse.
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I would wait. And during that time, don't try to anticipate a brake application and slow down. Use the brakes a little more (application wise) and see if it wears true. It's worth a shot rather then replacing the hardware.
