The Value of the 7.3L and 6.0L after MY 2008

[Smokewagun]

With all the new upcoming emissions hype, I began thinking. I periodically review the value of my truck as I trade frequently due to high miles. Although I do not drive them into the ground, I usually put miles on quick enough to hit 50,000 in a year - sometimes more. Anyway, I was thinking while sitting around the campfire this weekend about my next move in spring of 2007 and couldn’t quite put a finger on which direction I will most likely head. I was thinking about how the diesel market is going and how others are thinking that do the same thing as I do with their trucks.

First, I thought that IF any of us step into a 2008 with the new engine, we may be guinea pigs – but then again, maybe not. I guess, in a way, we are always “testers” as manufacturers always seem to add a flash here, and a re-flash there. Maybe, it’s a sign of the times. In any event, I think we are all certain that the new 2008’s will most likely go up in price, and that probably will not be the normal tweak or few percent, but rather some serious lettuce due to the engine changes. Maybe in the beginning, while sales are low because they haven’t really hit the lots the increase won’t bet there, but you can bet that soon afterward the stickers will jump. Regardless, a 2008 will cost more than a 2006 or 2007 of comparable outfit. So, what does that do to the value of our current trucks?

Well, in general, first of all, good, clean, used diesels are hard to come by around where I live. If you find one available, it isn’t for long. If it is, someone is looking to cut a hog in the !@#$%. I hear more of this in my travels, so hopefully, demand should keep up the value of our trucks up when used, regardless. It seems that someone is always looking for a good used diesel. With mine always being kept mint, well-maintained, and like new, I never have a problem off-loading one with 50k on the ticker. I guess we could always fall victim to fuel costing substantially more than gas, but the way I look at it, there are no real options out there in gas for the everyday hauler. Yes, there are some big blocks out there, but the power, torque, and longevity the diesel has still hasn’t been surpassed by a gasser, so those people who haul a lot most likely opt for diesels. Until the big three come out with some record-breaking gassers, the diesel will always have it’s place.

If the new 2008’s cost more (and they most likely will), all that does is keep the value of our trucks up there, too. The likelihood of rebates will be low as it usually is with new model introductions and new model year releases. Remember the new F-150? It took well over a year before rebates were offered on it, and then, it was on the less desireable models. Without rebates, I would think that many people would rather pay mid $30k to $40k for a newer model like-new truck than a new un-proven truck pushing a $55k to $60k cost. Again, this should help our “old style” diesels in the used category.

Also, with the hype of all theses new emissions equipment additions, I think many of us are wanting to stay clear of the newer models until we absolutely have to. I compare it to me wanting to get out of the 7.3’s to a 6.0L several years ago. The 6.0L was a new engine. Ahhh, better mileage and quicker than any 7.3L… so they said. At least with my old 7.3’s, there were no cats to deal with, they sounded much better, had no turbo lag, got much better mileage, had no turbo lag (did I say that before?), and you could tweak them without worrying. I think with the new engine coming, diesel modifications may take a few hits. Just look at the impact to the exhaust market due to the upcoming particulate filters. Yes, tweaking is a market and where there is a will, there is a way. I think I’ll have to think twice about putting a stupid steering wheel cover on a new truck as it may void the warranty – let alone exhaust or an air filter. So, in a nut shell, shouldn’t this keep the value of our trucks up there, too, even though the percentage of “tweakers” is probably less than X%? It’s funny, but driving through the campgrounds, I rarely see a truck “un-modded” some way or another. It always seems it’s the “old farts” sporting a six-inch stainless tip and gauges.

As for the promises on the upcoming engine, I’ll believe it when I see it. As for smoking the tires off a dually (as I read here somewhere), does anybody really care for that? At least the average diesel driver won’t. Give me a reliable 25mpg, no turbo lag, non-choked (by a computer), diesel engine and I’ll be happy. What’s the likelihood of this? We’ll see, but I’m not too sure it will happen this time around, either.

The way I see it, people have posted before thinking that the value of our current diesel trucks will be garbage after the “new and improved” hits the market. I can’t see it. The newer generation diesels never destroyed the values of the older ones, and that has nothing to do with the poor introduction of the 6.0L. Rebates and family pricing are more detrimental. Unless this new twin-turbo is then ultimate engine (and I remember unkept promises before the 6.0L launch), I see people holding onto their current 7.3L’s and 6.0L’s until the 6.4L is tried and true. That may take a few years – so for the first few years, anyway, maybe our used truck values will come back up.


Put it in the “For What It’s Worth” column. It’s just my two cents, which you can take or leave. Good Day!

[caryt]

Nothing will help the 6.0 resale value.
The 6.0 has helped the 7.3 resale and unless Ford gets their **** together on the new engine the old trucks will continue to hold theirs.

Cary

[Smokewagun]

Like I posted before, I have yet to see a 6.0L returning less than other diesels just because it's a 6.0L with a less than perfect record. I haven't seen KBB, Bluebook, Blackbook,or Edmunds offering peanuts for a 6.0L option on a trade value, or used value. The 6.0L being worth less is a myth, only a myth, and strictly a myth. Last I looked, a year old Superduty with 6.0L still returns over $5,000 for the engine option. For us who buy at or below invoice, it seems we made a few bucks on that purchase! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

[caryt]

[ QUOTE ]
Like I posted before, I have yet to see a 6.0L returning less than other diesels just because it's a 6.0L with a less than perfect record. I haven't seen KBB, Bluebook, Blackbook,or Edmunds offering peanuts for a 6.0L option on a trade value, or used value. The 6.0L being worth less is a myth, only a myth, and strictly a myth. Last I looked, a year old Superduty with 6.0L still returns over $5,000 for the engine option. For us who buy at or below invoice, it seems we made a few bucks on that purchase! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't help what kelly and the others say just look at what the 6.0's go for used on the street. Ask your dealer what he will give ya for your 6.0 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] OBS are still getting big$$$ if they are clean.

Cary

[toalpi]

[ QUOTE ]
As for the promises on the upcoming engine, I’ll believe it when I see it.

[/ QUOTE ] What specific promises are you referring to? You have some interesting thoughts, but this should be in the other forum where it will expire in 60 days.

[Smokewagun]

Cary,

I'm saying used ones bring big bucks, and Kelly supports that looking at the option adder. Some are saying a 6.0L is not worth anything because of the problems it incurred, but I have yet to see proof.

[Smokewagun]

[ QUOTE ]
...this should be in the other forum where it will expire in 60 days.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Because Ford made promises with the 6.0L that they still haven't delivered? Increased fuel economy is a good example.

[robsd]

1) People will run out and buy the new motor site unseen. they have the means and want to be the first on the block. who cares what they get for the old one. Many of those folks are right here. Look at how many get a new truck every couple years, mostly short haulers to! They can afford a $45k truck then so be it. $50k not a problem, it's just another $100 a month.

2) Kelly BB, usually just a guideline as to prices. So much more affects the price of a used truck. I think a lot of that is just pro-rated down in years.

3) Fuel economy - Ford may say they get better fuel economy, but do they really care. The 250's and up are not bound by the US mileage standards. IE they have to get the H2 up over 20 mpg in the next couple years.

So do you sell yours with 100k? or 200k? I would think being a long hauler I'd go as long as possible with a diesel going 300-400k. You don't get paid by how your truck looks, just the load it hauls. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[benco57]

Why Do you sell your trucks with only around 50,000 miles on them?

[bshultzrn]

As far as the continuing battle between the 7.3 and 6.0 goes..I work as a transport RN for American Medical Response in California. We run exclusively diesel ambulances and box mods. The 6.0 run units that we purchased BLOW THE DOORS off the 7.3...yes we have had some issues, but in all fairness, we put 200,000-300,000 on them in a hurry and beat the hell out of them as well. They hold up very well. I have 85,000 miles on my 03 F250 6.0, and have had no issues. However, I do my own mechanical work and change the Oil, filters and do the brakes religiously. They are great trucks. For the 7.3 fans. I had a friend of mine who owned a 1997 F250, and he put 450,000 miles on his truck before trading it in. His main issue was that the wind noise was increasing on his windows!!!! Great Trucks!!!

[Smokewagun]

Benco,
Mostly because I am fortunate enough to have a company vehicle, and after twelve years of trying to convince the Boss of my plan, he agreed to try it. Almost seven years later, it's still working. Plan? Buy an F-250 diesel crewcab, drive it a year (about 50-60k), then trade up to the same truck in the current model for about $5,000. In 50k miles, the oil gets changed every 3,500 to 4,000 miles, but it has never seen any major services. After 50k, add up tires, brakes, shocks, trans service, radiator, etc... and you can blow a good portion of the $5k to trade up, and STILL be heading quickly toward heavier service bills as the mileage goes up... I don't care how well it's taken care of. So, the boss has agreed to spend the money on a trade-up instead of service. The average cost to trade up has actually been around $4,500 for identical trucks, but I usually get another goodie or two. This has always been possible with the nice rebates and incentives, plus I deal with a dealer who wants my trades (most have sold within a few days) and sells at invoice at the highest. I am afraid that the way the resale market was hit last year with the "Family Pricing", the $5,000 trade diofference may be going a bit higher this year. Also, with the unproven 6.4L on the horizon, poor diesel economy, and diesel prioces being higher than gas, I may have to opt for(or be cajoled into) an F-150 Supercrew, or a car. Time will tell.

[jschira]

[ QUOTE ]
The 6.0L being worth less is a myth, only a myth, and strictly a myth.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not really.

Check differences in trade-in value for an 2003 7.3 and a 2003 6.0. KBB says the 6.0 is worth $250 more. NADA says $300 more. Roughly even, so you say. Proves your point, you might think.

Not so fast.

In November 2002, when I bought my '03 7.3 X, there was a $2000 rebate on the 7.3. No rebate at all on the 6.0. Plus, the 6.0 option was I think $800 more than the 7.3 option.

So, nuts to nuts, a 6.0 X identical to my 7.3 X would have cost me $2800 more. That is why I went with the 7.3. Remember, the 6.0 had no reputation at all in November 2002.

Fast forward to 2006. That $2800 up charge to move from the 7.3 to the 6.0 is now worth $300.

Seems to me that I would have lost $2500 by buying the 6.0.

BTW - I bought below invoice on X-Plan.

[Smokewagun]

I guess I never really thought about the rebate situation since every diesel I have purchased from 1999 to 2006 has had a rebate, although I played the same game you stated back then, too. Rebates have been the main reason I have been able to trade each year for trade differences between $4,000 and $5,400 (even cheaper earlier on) with trucks one-year old with high mileage. I also never considered the rebates to be applicable to just the engine, or at least I never recall Ford saying "Buy the diesel and we'll give you 'X" back, because usually, the gas option trucks have a higher rebate at the same time, and the rebate is applied to the sale price of the truck as a whole. Put the rebate where you want, it doesn't really matter, but to me, that's like saying a $3,500 rebate on an F-250 V-10 is like having Ford give a buyer $2,805 cash back just to take the V-10... but at trade time (when I get peanuts or nothing back) I can say "Oh, well, I still got $2,805 back on the V-10, so I made money. If you look at KBB, or any of them, they list the diesel with an "X" value option adder if the truck has it. It never says "X minus the rebate applicable during may through June of 2003". The book doesn't care about the rebates in reference to the value of the engine or any option for that matter. It DOES matter on the truck value as a whole. I looked back and my post mentions the value of the 6.0L being worth less because of the new 6.4L hitting the market. So if i apply your scenario, you support me, because the 6.4L will most likely NOT have a rebate early on, too - as I said in my earlier post. I appreciate your point, and as I said, I played the same game, and will most likely play it again with the last 6.0L on the lot as the 6.4L's take over.

[jschira]

My '99 PSD had no rebate. Ordered 2/98, delivered 5/98.

I am not sure that I follow your high finance example. All I know is, the 6.0 would have cost me $2800 more to buy, and is worth only $300 more now. In my book, the 6.0 has depreciated faster than the 7.3.

I don't think that I have ever heard anyone say that the diesel option on any truck (GM, DCX or Ford), does not make the truck worth more down the road. The question is, how much more? You can't compare a 2005 Ford to a 1999 Ford. You also can't compare a 2005 Ford to a 2005 GM. The only informative comparison is a 7.3 to a 6.0. That only happened in 2003.

[444-4D]

I think something important has been forgotten. That something is warranty. As the 6.0 starts leaving warranty status they will become less desirable.