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'97 F350 won't start, what's next ?

3K views 29 replies 5 participants last post by  Kimber1911 
#1 ·
I have a 97 F350. Stage 1 injectors, ts 6 chip, strait pipe. truck does allot of work for me, And it decided it wanted some new parts a couple weeks ago. Well I've been feeding it parts to no avail so far and i need to know whats next. before break down the truck was hard to start. took two long cranks (5-8 seconds) with white smoke (and some blue) like crazy for about 5-10 minutes after driving away... if i just left it there to warm up all day it would push white and blue smoke for hours. but ran great once warmed up...clean. . . then out of the blue it wouldn't start while i was delivering firewood. so i rolled down the hill, jumped the truck with the key on and drove away fine. made it 5km then it sputtered to a few cylinders and i didnt try and drive anywhere I powered down checked some things and it wouldnt start again... Cranks hard. I changed the CPS (twice), GPR, and tested it with a volt meter. normal, new Valve cover gaskets, new IPR, unplugged ICP, New Glow plugs New Injector O rings. Injectors are all level, no leaks. (before i changed the O rings they were chewed as hell and leaked about 4-6 L of diesel into my oil from cranking engine over) but one bank isn't firing still after all that. I obviously drained both oil rails but didn't refill them as one side of the engine i couldn't get the plugs out. so used the back plug and couldn't really refill it back there...i thought some excess cranking would prime it anyways...ive been cranking like crazzy with a huge jumper/ballery charger hooked up for a couple days now...still no start. took VC back off one side i wasnt hearing much noise from and it wasn't squirting any oil...smells like lotsa fuel though... anyways. i hope i can get a few headings from u experts. I have a volt meter, a useless ob2 reader with no ford program and a hammer... but ill get any info I can asap... Ohh and i have an identical parts truck, if its worth while swapping things like IDM ect ? i was thinking that next
Jessy
 
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#3 ·
tried swapping IDM, truck didnt fire. with valve cover off, left passenger side bank still isnt firing, but lotsa smokey fuel/exaust ? Another note. when cranking my oil pressure gauge slowly climbs. maybe after cranking 4 times for 10-15 seconds it builds to 420 psi...a little under where t normaly liked to idle. and then oil pressure drops rappidly when i stop cranking. but i dont know if the gauge is doing that just because the key is off... every time I re-crank it has to start back up from 10 or 20 psi again though...is there a bypass issue ?
 
#4 ·
You really need to refill the oil rails before doing anything else. Cranking the engine may never get it done, especially since you've had the IPR out and have air in the HPOP.

After you get the rails full, you'll need to crack the nuts on the high pressure oil lines and crank on it. This will purge the air from the HPOP, the IPR, and the oil lines. Keep the HPOP reservoir full while you do this.

When you get that done, remove your chip - good chance that's been your problem all along.
 
#5 ·
You wouldn't be getting white, fuel-smelling smoke without at least some high oil pressure, so you may have the oil rails pretty-much filled. Seeing 400+ psi is another indication you're getting enough high oil pressure to start the engine - still wouldn't hurt to purge the oil lines.

The raw fuel smoke indicates fuel is being supplied and that the IDM is firing the injectors.

....The chip is the problem, I can feel it from here :)
 
#6 ·
Alright, so I'm thinking your saying, crack the lines a little that are on the Hpop, there's air in there (makes sense, this whole time I've been cranking the hpop hasn't dropped an inch)just like bleeding brakes hey, once I get strait oil coming out tighten back up, top off oil rails again and start cranking some more...(i took the chip out before trying for codes with my OB2 reader) made no difference so far...
thanks for the help.
Jessy
 
#7 ·
If you can, crack the HPOP lines at the head vice the HPOP. Are you getting 5V with the key ON at the Brown with White stripe wire for any of the following sensors: MAP, BARO, TPS, EBP, ICP, CPS? Cheers!
 
#9 ·
Cracked the oil rails back open today, they seamed full as oil flowed out everywhere. The opened up the lines off the heads and got a small amount of air out of the passenger side head, none from the driver side. I cranked for a few short bursts and has a steady flow of oil, no air bubbles after the first burst...I guess I lost some oil in the rails when I opened the plugs again. So I'll have to crank that back full...so far no start still. And I do have 5v from the icp sensor brown and white wire.
 
#12 ·
You don't want to measure the voltages with the key on. Here's how to check the wiring:

For checking the injector/glowplug wiring: From each valvecover gasket connection's outermost pins (2 per connector) to ground you should get 0.1 to 2 ohms (indicates good plug and wiring). From each valvecover gasket connection's center pin to each immediately adjacent pin, you should get around 3 ohms (indicates good injector solenoid and wiring). You should not get any continuity from any of the outer pins to the 3 inner pins (indicates no shorts between injector and glowplug wiring). You should also get 0 to 1 ohms from each of the external harness connectors outer pins back to the Glowplug Relay's large terminal on the GP side (indicates good wiring from external connections back to the relay).

To check the glowplug relay (GPR), measure the voltage drop across the GPR's large terminals. While the GPR is active (up to 1.5 to 2 minutes after the key is turned to Wait-to-Start) put your meter leads on the large terminals (one lead on one large terminal and the other lead on the other large terminal). The measures how much voltage is being "lost" across the relay. A reading of 0.3V or more indicates a bad relay.

Cheers!
 
#14 ·
so as a re-cap, truck hasn't started or wanted to start since break down day when It went to try and run on 4 cylinders...new IPR, new O rings, new IDM, new CPS, Unplugged ICP, new Valve cover gaskets (didn't wire the new pigtails on yet) and I purged the air out of the oil system, all seams good to go...still no start, I'd think that the truck would at least start on 4 cylinders like Kimber1911 said...but no go, I've been getting smoke at the tailpipe ?not excessive) and some raw fuil smoke from both heads...no injectors firing though...tried unplugging injectors one at a time, head didn't come alive yet, no go still...today I will go the electrical tests Patrick Feeley set up for me...I need to answers...somethings wrong here... I'm going to search the main harness to the valve covers for frays...and I think I know how to use my volt meter on that, same as under valve cover gasket right...sorry guys, I'm very new to electrical stuff, it's not my strong suit...but it seams this truck has moved into that stage now...ill follow the tests you've put up...thanks allot ! this trucks really making me pound my head haha
 
#16 ·
allrighty, so I tested glow plug pins to ground and got .1 ohms
Injector pins too Center 2.7-2.9 ohms across all 4 injectors. so my solenoids should be good on those.
tested for continuity and got no reading anywhere from glow plug pins to injectors ect. so wiring is good
And i tested the relay to the outer most glow plug pins on the harness. got 0.0-0.2 ohms meaning harness is fine.

so the trucks passed all those wiring tests. what do i need to look at next.
ps, while digging around through wires i found the plug going to the ipr was exposed in a small spot and frayed close to the plug itself. can i unplug this to try and start the truck ? is there a default setting there ?
 
#17 ·
Your glow plugs reading are actually off from what they should be with a reading of 0.1 ohms. They should be between 0.6 and 2 ohms. So I would consider them bad or questionable.

There are a few more things to check on the injector wiring and it can be done from the plug at the IDM. Here is a pdf of what to do and check.
 

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#19 ·
new results.
Test One: Injectors ohmed out from the IDM plug.
left and right bank all within 2.9-3.1 ohms

Test Two:
Left Bank(passenger) power feed to IDM Ground Circuit . OPEN
Right Bank(driver) Power Feed To IDM Ground Circuit. OPEN

Test three:
Left bank(passenger) power feed too Injector Ground Shield. 12.66 ohms
Right Bank(driver) Power Feed To Injector Ground Shield. OPEN

So from my results it looks like I have a bad ground wire going to my left bank.
I'm going to check my pigtails going to the VCG and hope to report back with some results.
 
#20 ·
Still working on the truck guys. and im back with a few more details.

I wired new pigtail plugs to the uvch. Ground issue seams to be gone.
Discovered frayed wires on ipr plug.
So I cut that back to good wire,
I actually used a plug from one of my old uvch's
its the same except there are 4 tabs on the plug that need to be filed off.

with that fixed and out of the way I then moved into oil pressure.
I had a hose made with a number 5-steel fitting to screw into oil rail.
Then to a number 4 female adapter to two feet of 6800 psi hose.
then to liquid filled 5000psi pressure gauge.

After getting some air out of the system and cranking on the truck through 3 or 4 cycles.
It then built up 2400-2500 psi...Im pretty sure thats well under what it needs to fire correct ?
What would i expect to be the issue ? bad Hpop, or maybe a cut O-ring from my new injector install ?

I appreciate the help. thanks allot
jessy
 
#23 ·
So when I did that test from the IDM plug earlier
I got some resistance from the Injector ground shield.
After researching that I realized that it's the bare wire
wrapped in foil around the injector wires. I don't see where its melted.
But I'm Going to search more and then wrap it up with foil tape ect.

Have u guys Seen this ground shield show resistance like mine,
and tell the idm to shut down one bank before ?
If the ground shield and injector wires melted to create the short.
Then how did I pass the original injector test

I hope I'm on the right track.
 
#24 ·
Ps. fuel pressure is nice and high where it should be. oil pressure is good. just no injectors firing. still lots of fuel billowing out of the heads. so i guess the injectors are giving fuel ? but not getting electricity ? this twists what i know about the injection system. because i though u first needed electricity to open the injector and close. I enjoy getting an education guys. this is been a real puzzle for me
 
#26 ·
when cranking the engine over to watch the injectors and see if they would start squirting any oil with the valve covers off. there is "misty" diesel smoke. Smells like very raw unburden fuel. Now I test the GPR daily to ensure its functioning. And I can hear my glow plugs sizzling in the heads with the key on, yet. no start. And there's smoke out the tailpipe also. Driver side is firing but not starting the engine on its own. oil presure 2400, fuel pressure 60+ psi
 
#27 ·
Alright guys just a final update on the truck after I pulled a long shift in camp. I came back and changed the pcm. No luck there, then I had the truck sent off to a local diesel mechanic. he looked at things with a fresh mind and said he though the engine and it sounded off when he was cranking it over...Did a compression test, it failed on most cylinders. passenger side bank especialy... ...I find this puzzling, and I never did a compression test as i thought the truck was running very well with full power up until the day it failed and cut off to 4 cylinders (with low compression as well). I had been hauling cords of firewood for days and months previous up until failure day and never noticed a lack of power...i don't believe this to be anything to do with hydro locking my engine as i had all glow plugs out and hand turned the engine. Then cranked engine with the starter and fuel system fuse removed before returning them... ...anyways, I'm just a little puzzled. Going to pick the truck up today and ill be swapping my 94.5 Powerstroke engine from a previously strong running truck with 350,000 km ... ...ill be looking up threads with good tips and tricks for the swap. any suggestions where to start my research ?
thanks allot guys for the help along the way...this is an abrupt end to a long puzzle
 
#28 ·
Don't know exactly what "failed" means regarding the compression test, but I know what I would do...........ETHER!!!

If the no-start is due to low compression, ether will get it going. You have an old and worn engine - it ain't gonna' ever work like a new engine. Ether is quick and inexpensive - start with a SMALL shot of it and stay on the starter for a second or two after it first fires.

You let the truck sit for a long time - it needs to just get running again. Once you get that done, my guess is you'll be able to start it without ether just about every time.
 
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