Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Go Back   Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > Ford Diesels > Power Strokes 1994-1997 General

Power Strokes 1994-1997 General Technical discussion of topics related to vehicles powered by the Power Stroke engine in 1994 through 1997 models.

TheDieselstop.com is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-20-2007, 11:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 57
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

So a week ago I changed my oil filter and popped the canister on my bypass to check the condition of that filter. Well I put back in 1 qt. of 0w-40 and 2 1/2 qts. of standard 15w-40. Well the truck started the next morning no problem cuz I had it plugged in, but at the end of the day the truck was a ***** to start. I had to cycle the glow plugs like 4 times and keep the starter cranking. Well this problem continued(continues) for the following week when I didn't plug in overnight and the end of the work day. Keep in mind the temp didn't really get above 30 degrees for the week. So I figured this might have something to do with the oil I put in soo I drained a bit of oil and replaced the drained oil with some more 0w-40. I plugged the truck in last night and at the end of today I had to cycle the GP's once to start.(The temp today was in the 40's or 50's). So I'm thinking this isn't an oil problem, but a glow plug relay.

Do glow plug relays just suddenly not like to work consistently? Up till I changed my oil the truck never had a problem starting, so I can't imagine this is a glow plug issue but I won't rule it out.

Any way to test to find out if my relay is dying?
__________________
1990 Jeep Wrangler with tons of mods
1995 F250 5spd turbo Diesel for towing the jeep
RedPenguin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-21-2007, 12:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
STurbo90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: LA/OC
Posts: 3,503
My Photos: (9)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

just measure the voltage across the two big lugs while the relay is active,

if there is a big difference, more then half a volt, the relay probably needs to be replaced,

if there is no difference, then the you probably need new glow plugs.


is there a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust while its cranking and not starting?
__________________
1995 F350 PSD,CC,LB,E4OD,4WDw4:10LS
IDM Corrosion
Underdash Gauge Pod
Front Tow Hooks
STurbo90 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-21-2007, 08:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 57
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

[ QUOTE ]
just measure the voltage across the two big lugs while the relay is active,

if there is a big difference, more then half a volt, the relay probably needs to be replaced,

if there is no difference, then the you probably need new glow plugs.


is there a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust while its cranking and not starting?

[/ QUOTE ]

Define a lot? The truck has always smoke screened the area when I first started it up colder mornings and after sitting for all day(roughly 8-10 hours). It doesn't billow but there is smoke because a few of the cylinders are partially firing
__________________
1990 Jeep Wrangler with tons of mods
1995 F250 5spd turbo Diesel for towing the jeep
RedPenguin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-21-2007, 09:19 AM   #4 (permalink)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Muskegon ,Michigan
Posts: 8,051
My Photos: (1)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't billow but there is smoke because a few of the cylinders are partially firing



[/ QUOTE ] You may need to test the GP's with a meter.

Turn the key off and disconect each valve cover harness. The two outer-most terminals of each connector are for the glow plugs. Resistance from the glow plug terminal to ground is 1-2 ohms depending on engine temperature, and from the glow plug relay output terminal to the harness connectors 0-1 ohms
__________________
Rick.....
97 F 350 ...Lucky 13
"Most stuff's just stuck & needs hittin with a hammer .Supporter/End user of ShiftSolutions THE CURE E4/4R Trans Control. Helping Cancer patients and families
Special thanks to RacerX USA

action4478 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-21-2007, 09:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,034
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

replace the glowplug relay with a stancor problem solved
__________________
Ford F250 Short Bed Extended Cab/190K/5 speed/BDP Tranny Savers/Redline MTFin tranny/410 gears/open diff./No cat. conv./4" warped speed exhaust w/5" chrome tip/Gutted EBPV/3.5" downpipe/ Tymar open air intake/95 dana 60 / 6" skyjacker Lift/ Factory Manual hubs/HX hose/Ranch Hand Rear bumper/ Fumoto drain valve/Baldwin bypass/Coolant Bypass/Energy Suspension bushings(red)up front/bilstein 5100 shocks/Valeo clutch/31575R16 Cooper SST mt/K-9 Remote Security System/Mag Tech Diff. Cover/(ALF 6 Factory Program) TS 6 Position flip chip/Diamond Cut Headlights/203* Thermostat/Autometer Gauges/TSM Rear Disc Conversion
agomez is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-21-2007, 01:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 57
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't billow but there is smoke because a few of the cylinders are partially firing



[/ QUOTE ] You may need to test the GP's with a meter.

Turn the key off and disconect each valve cover harness. The two outer-most terminals of each connector are for the glow plugs. Resistance from the glow plug terminal to ground is 1-2 ohms depending on engine temperature, and from the glow plug relay output terminal to the harness connectors 0-1 ohms

[/ QUOTE ]

So I'm guessing with a higher than normal resistance the GP is bad?
__________________
1990 Jeep Wrangler with tons of mods
1995 F250 5spd turbo Diesel for towing the jeep
RedPenguin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-21-2007, 01:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bremerton, Washington
Posts: 2,923
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

Cold start problems are usually caused by one of four things:
1. Bad Glow Plug Relay
2. Bad Glow Plugs
3. Weak Batteries
4. Weak Starter
There are a few other things, but these are the most likely causes. First I would test your glow plug relay (GPR). When the relay is energized (WTS light is on and for approximately 2 minutes after that when the engine is cold) measure the voltage on the two big posts on the glow plug relay. They should have the battery voltage across them and very little difference between them. If they have more than .3 volt difference between the big posts, your relay is bad. You can test your glow plugs by measuring the resistance from a good ground (I use the negative battery terminal) to each glow plug. The two outer pins on your four valve cover connectors go to your glow plugs. They all should read less than 2 ohms. If they read more than 2 ohms your plugs are bad and need replacement. If your relay and plugs tested good, have your batteries and starter tested at AutoZone or some other parts store. You need two good batteries and a good starter to start a PSD when it cold out.
There are other causes of a ‘Cold’ start problem, but these are the most likely and I would check them first. If everything above checks out okay…then inspect all your battery and starter motor connections. Make sure they are tight and not corroded.

Good Luck!

Griz
__________________
02 F250, 4X4, 4R100, 3.73, B&M Transmission Pan, Edge CTS Digital Gage, Tymar 4" Exhaust, Tymar Intake & HPX & TS 6 Position Chip. IH Bellowed Up-Pipes, RiffRaff AIH delete plug, Riffraff FRx Kit. 6.0 Transmission Cooler. Dieselsite Coolant filter & Transmission filter & 203 Thermostat & WW2 & TurboMaster & inter-cooler boots. BD CCV filter. Driven Diesel Fuel Tank Mod & Pre-Pump Filter. John Wood's valve body.
Griz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-21-2007, 01:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Racine, Wi
Posts: 1,035
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't billow but there is smoke because a few of the cylinders are partially firing



[/ QUOTE ] You may need to test the GP's with a meter.

Turn the key off and disconect each valve cover harness. The two outer-most terminals of each connector are for the glow plugs. Resistance from the glow plug terminal to ground is 1-2 ohms depending on engine temperature, and from the glow plug relay output terminal to the harness connectors 0-1 ohms

[/ QUOTE ]

So I'm guessing with a higher than normal resistance the GP is bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. More resistance = less heat to the glowplugs in all cases. Too little resistance (<1 ohm) on the glowplugs is too much current & fire will result.
__________________
'96 F250 XLT, PSD, 4x4, ExtCab, LB, Auto, 3.55.
11-06: DIY Open Element, EBPV & TC exhaust brake.
02-07: 40 gal '05 F550 aft-axle tank = ~60 gal total.
03-07BTS downpipe & 6pos chip.

04-07: ]226,000mi 277HP, 543TQ, Graph
05-07: EGT, Boost, Trans from Tymar
06-07: 4" exhaust, 31 row 6.0L trans cooler
08-07: BTS Transmission.[/url]
09-07: 80.76 @ 16.527

My picture & diagrams
danjreed is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-21-2007, 03:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 57
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

Well I'm at work so I only had time to check the relay. I"m pulling 11.58 volts on one side and 11.98 on the other. Its really warm today too so I'd say that will warrant changing the relay. I have to wait till the weekend to check the plugs
__________________
1990 Jeep Wrangler with tons of mods
1995 F250 5spd turbo Diesel for towing the jeep
RedPenguin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2007, 11:52 AM   #10 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 11
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

Well this may seem a dumb question but WHERE is the Glow Plug Relay?
I found a solonoid next to the fuel canister and another one mounted right behind the battery on the right side. I checked voltage on the one by the fuel canister and the right post had 12.1 volts but nothing on the left post and nothing between them when energized. Yet I heard the solonoid click when turning the key on.
What am I doing wrong? Or is that the realy and its bad?
__________________
1997 F-350 Dually, Houston Tx. Tymar Air Mod, 122K miles.
airbeat is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2007, 12:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Muskegon ,Michigan
Posts: 8,051
My Photos: (1)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

[ QUOTE ]
Well this may seem a dumb question but WHERE is the Glow Plug Relay?
I found a solonoid next to the fuel canister and another one mounted right behind the battery on the right side. I checked voltage on the one by the fuel canister and the right post had 12.1 volts but nothing on the left post and nothing between them when energized. Yet I heard the solonoid click when turning the key on.
What am I doing wrong? Or is that the realy and its bad?

[/ QUOTE ]That is the right one , & it sounds like it is bad, voltage on one side (to ground) only...
__________________
Rick.....
97 F 350 ...Lucky 13
"Most stuff's just stuck & needs hittin with a hammer .Supporter/End user of ShiftSolutions THE CURE E4/4R Trans Control. Helping Cancer patients and families
Special thanks to RacerX USA

action4478 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2007, 01:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bremerton, Washington
Posts: 2,923
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

[ QUOTE ]
Well this may seem a dumb question but WHERE is the Glow Plug Relay?
I found a solenoid next to the fuel canister and another one mounted right behind the battery on the right side. I checked voltage on the one by the fuel canister and the right post had 12.1 volts but nothing on the left post and nothing between them when energized. Yet I heard the solenoid click when turning the key on.
What am I doing wrong? Or is that the realy and its bad?


[/ QUOTE ]
The GPR is next to the fuel filter canister under the black plastic PowerStroke cover. If you are talking about the two big posts on this relay then you should have battery voltage on one of the posts when not energized and nothing on the other. When the relay is energized you will have battery voltage on both posts and very little difference between them. That would indicate a good GPR.

Griz
__________________
02 F250, 4X4, 4R100, 3.73, B&M Transmission Pan, Edge CTS Digital Gage, Tymar 4" Exhaust, Tymar Intake & HPX & TS 6 Position Chip. IH Bellowed Up-Pipes, RiffRaff AIH delete plug, Riffraff FRx Kit. 6.0 Transmission Cooler. Dieselsite Coolant filter & Transmission filter & 203 Thermostat & WW2 & TurboMaster & inter-cooler boots. BD CCV filter. Driven Diesel Fuel Tank Mod & Pre-Pump Filter. John Wood's valve body.
Griz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2007, 02:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
HELLRAISER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Delta
Posts: 257
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

90% of the time, your GPR is gonna be your problem. A quick way to test it is first thing in the morning, using an insolated screw driver etc, jump the two large terminals on the GPR (The relay 4 post solenoid looking device found on the middle/top of the engine, behind the alternator. Keep the jumper on there for apprx 60 sec, and attempt to start. If the vehicle fires up, that is likely your problem.

However, to test it properly, here's what you do. Using a voltmeter, (ensuring the engine is at its coldest condition ie first thing in the morning), with the ignition off, find the two large terminals on the GPR. One will be ground, one will power. Test for a 12V supply voltage at the GPR. By testing across the two large terminals, it should also read 12V ensuring a the GPR has a proper ground.

Now, turn the key into the "RUN" position, and your WAIT TO START light should come on. Test the voltage difference across the two large terminals. They should read somewhere between 0-1 Volt. This means current is flowing thru the GPR to your glow plugs during this time. The WAIT TO START light usually stays on for 16 Sec, (two sec a glow plug), however, after the light goes out the relay can stay on up to 90 sec depending on temp.. If there the voltage difference does not maintain less than 1V for a minimum of 16 sec, your GPR is faulty.

One more test just to ensure it is not the signal the GPR that is at fault, you can also do this. The two smaller terminals are a power signal and a ground for the GPR to transmit power across the two large terminals. Test for a voltage signal when the key is rotated in the the "run" position. This signal is sent from the computer to the GPR. If there is no signal being sent, you then have an issue with the computer or a wiring issue which is extremely uncommon, but all the same, a 1 min test while you are there just to ensure the signal is infact getting to the GPR.

Now a question... Is the signal sent from the computer to the GPR supposed to stay on for the entire time that the GP's are being fired, or is this the job of the GPR internal workings to keep the current flowing to the GP's for a determined amount of time?
__________________
96 FORD SUPERCAB, 5"LIFT, 315 BFG M/T'S, 10 000LB WARN WINCH, BUSH BUMPER, GUTTED EBPV, CUSTOM AIR INTAKE, OPEN EXHAUST AFTER DOWNPIPE, UPGRADED IDM, WAITIN FOR $$ FOR MORE MODS.
HELLRAISER is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2007, 06:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Muskegon ,Michigan
Posts: 8,051
My Photos: (1)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

[ QUOTE ]
Now a question... Is the signal sent from the computer to the GPR supposed to stay on for the entire time that the GP's are being fired, or is this the job of the GPR internal workings to keep the current flowing to the GP's for a determined amount of time?

[/ QUOTE ] EOT determines the duration of the GP cycle, If you are not testing it while cold , unplug the EOT sensor & the GP's will time out based on the PCM
__________________
Rick.....
97 F 350 ...Lucky 13
"Most stuff's just stuck & needs hittin with a hammer .Supporter/End user of ShiftSolutions THE CURE E4/4R Trans Control. Helping Cancer patients and families
Special thanks to RacerX USA

action4478 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2007, 09:55 AM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
SteveBaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Back in the PACWEST
Posts: 4,770
My Photos: (12)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via Skype™ to SteveBaz
Re: Glow plugs or Glow Plug Relay

Glow Plug Replacement
Time: About 4 hours with 2 people working together at it.

1st we tested the electrical connections to see if the bank of glow plugs we were going to replace really needed to be replaced. We decided to do the drivers side by grounding a test meter negative 200 ohms selection on the test meter and pulled the glow plug connectors wire loom apart. Touching each connector inside we either got a “NO” read (bad plug) or a value on the meter of .5 or so showing a “GOOD” glow plug. Having 2 good and 2 bad on the drivers side we decided that side needed attention, then we tested the passenger side and found 3 bad out of 4 so we knew both covers need to be removed.

We both dived in, Dale removed the AC Dryer from the firewall so we can get to all the bolts holding the cover on the passenger side, and I started removing on the drivers side, the air intake system from the front of the hood to the turbo. I plugged the turbo so nothing could get in or fall in the turbo or damage any blades. It was time to remove the valve cover so we started the drivers side. Note! The valve cover bolts are different size heads and the length than the air intake mount on the solid aluminum bracket piece the rubber tubes mount to. Keep that in mind when you put it back together. Then while I cleaned the intake parts in solvent (brake clean worked the best) Dale started pulling the wires off the first glow plug, after he blew out the oil in the recess the plug fits into, he used a 10mm long ¼ drive socket to loosen the old glow plug and a ¼” vacuum tube to slide on the top of the glow plug to spin the rest out and to remove the glow plug. I then took the old plug and put a new one on the tube for Dale to screw in the new glow plug and then he tighten to 14 foot pounds. I decided to buy and replace all 8 and we worked like that until it was done. Before putting the valve covers back on we tested the plugs at the connectors like before but all had a good reading now. NOTE! The passenger side has a higher reading than the drivers side being closer to the battery. The valve cover bolts needed to be torqued to 8 foot pounds.
Glow Plug Removal

This is a straight-forward service. After removing the valve covers and unplugging the glow plug(s), loosen the glow plug a couple of turns (10mm deep socket, 1/4" drive). Then push a 4-6" piece of vacuum line over the end of he glow plug and use the hose to unscrew and remove it. Use the hose to install and screw in the glow plug, then tighten with the socket. The socket will contact the rocker arms if used to remove the glow plug. If the glow plug is difficult to turn you may be able to loosen it by working it back and forth--turn counter clockwise one turn then clockwise half a turn--until it turns freely enough that it can be loosened with the hose. If the glow plug probe is severely carboned up or swollen, the barrel may screw out of the head leaving the probe stuck in the hole. In this instance you may be able to remove the probe by removing the adjancent rocker arm and push rod to gain enough room to get ahold of the probe with a pair of needle-nose pliers. Have someone hold the pliers to prevent the probe from falling into the cylinder and use a long punch to loosen the probe by tapping it down. Once the probe is broken loose, work it up and down in the hole until it can be pulled out--some WD 40 or other solvent may help to loosen any carbon on the probe once it can moved, just remember not to use too much and to remove any residual by cranking over the engine with the glow plug out. You may be able to dislodge the seize probe by cranking over the engine, just remember to reinstall the rocker and pushrod if removed, and place a blanket or fender cover over the glow plug to keep it from shooting out. If the probe falls into the cylinder or cannot be loosened, the head will have to be removed to extract the probe. To prevent damage, remove all the glow plugs on the head to be removed and install them after the head has been reinstalled.

Good luck,

BAZ...
__________________
1996 Ford F350 PSD 4x4, Crew Cab, 5 Speed Manuel Transmission, 355 Differentials,
40 Gallon Transfer Flow Tank Center & 18 Gallon Rear, Rancho 9000’s Shocks,
Rancho Steering Wheel Dampener, Auxiliary Idle Controller by Sparky, Velvet Rides,
Maddog Stage 2 Injectors, Superchips 70 horse power chip w/130 Torq, ISSPRO Gauges
in A-Pillar Pyrometer & Boost, Dash Cluster - Oil Pressure, Water Temp, Trans Temp, Hypermax Down Pipe, TYMAR, Nathan P-3 Train Horns, ViAir Air Onboard Compressor, ViAir 2 Gallon Air Tank & Air Tool Valve


BAZ's Tips N' Tricks
http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/949...vebaz/tips.htm

BAZ's Web Pictures
http://community.webshots.com/user/stevebaz?start=0
SteveBaz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > Ford Diesels > Power Strokes 1994-1997 General

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



» Wheel & Tire Center

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:15 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.