International Water Pump...revisited - Diesel Forum

spaceballs · 02-21-2007, 11:39 PM

I just got great deal on this water pump on ebay...so I am definitely doing this one. I just had a couple of questions.

I noticed that on some of the past writeups, there are PNs listed for both a smooth pulley and a grooved pulley. I checked mine, and it is smooth now. Does this mean that I should replace it with the International Smooth Pulley? Why would I go with the grooved one?

I am trying to get all of the parts necessary, but to do so I need to know all of the lines running into the pump and running out. That way, I can get the barbs, plugs, etc. Here they go:
1 Thermostat and upper radiator hose
2 Lower radiator hose
3 Line from degas bottle???
4 bottom big out to lower radiator hose
5 smaller out to heater hose
6 spin on coolant filter

Am I missing anything else? If anyone could fill me in, I would appreciate it. I might find more questions in the near future, but this is it for now.

BigRed CC Dually · 02-22-2007, 08:14 AM

There is an additional pulley on the pump that is required and is grooved. You will also need a longer belt.

Some of the discussion in earlier posts regarding the IH pump with coolant filter boss mentioned grinding off the pulley mounting boss cast into the new pump, but obviously it would likely void any warranty. Brian (Renegade) mentioned doing this. If this were done then you would not need any other pulley other than those you already have.

#2 and #4 appear to be the same thing, the return from the radiator is direct to the pump, the degas bottle lower hose, and heater hose attach via hose barbs to the pump. The Tee in the 1997 lower radiator hose is no longer needed with the new setup as you hook the lower degas hose to a barb in the return of the pump.

spaceballs · 02-22-2007, 10:30 AM

Let me get this straight...I will need two pulleys on this one water pump? I guess that I am just not sure where the second pulley would go. It is pretty obvious where the one would go, but I can't quite see where the second would go. Can you give me internation PNs for both?

talford · 02-22-2007, 02:42 PM

Kurt,

Go to page 7 of this forum, near bottom of page is 2-16-07 post by Sparky30_06 titled 'International Water Pump' . Go to DaveBey 's post and in that post, click on 'water pumpo options'.this will be an 11-22-05 post.Go to DaveBey's post and there are all the part numbers. Dave has a '96 PSD, the '97 should be the same for this conversion.

You see the pully number is IH 1822653C92 , there is the part number for the bolt and the dust cover. the bolt is a # 50 torx ( I went out and pushed my hand down there and the best I can tell, it looks like a #50 torx) Your pully mounts on the new pump just to the drivers side of the fan mount - click on 'water pump' in that post and (it's dark) but the pulley goes to the right of the fan mount, just below the water filler neck flange on top and the filter boss on bottom.

My conversion was done on a bone stock '96 F350 cc dually WITHOUT the big (130 ?) amp alternator. I just went out and read the letters off my belt : NAPA serpentine 8 grove # 25-081196. As I recall, I ran it all around except for the tensioner pulley and put a big wrench on the tensioner (can't remember whicvh way I turned the wrench) and cranked on it hard , and the new belt just slipped on. Man, I hope I'm remembering acurately.

Down at the bottom of Dave's post , if you click on 'Lovely picture of the hose barbs installed' you will see the two barbs in the pump.
The big is brass 3/4 pipe thread to 1" male hose barb . You will have to special order this thing from somewhere - I went to an industrial hose supplier here in houston (National Hose and accessory on Richey in Pasadena 713-920-2030.This is the barb that your degas bottle (1") hose goes on - be carefull and measure 3 times and cut only once.

Ok, I'm not sure about the other barb - the return 5/8" heater hose.As I type this I'm holding the original fitting (off my old ford pump) in my left hand, so I didn't use it for whatever reason. This is the fitting that Davebey went out at 11 at night to hunt up. I just went out and scratched on mine and ( to the best of my ability), it is a COPPER fitting - not brass or steel. I know the heater hose is 5/8, so that end will be a 5/8 male hose barb. That leaves the end that goes in the new pump to consider. Look at your new pump,if you have it , is this fitting pipe thread or straight? Is it 7/8" in size. Bud, I can try as Hard as I want , but I can't remember. Seems Like I bought this thing at National Hose and Accessory also.

The Tstat I got was a 192 degree IH part # 1845804C1 (comes with square shouldered gasket) . I do not know about 203 stat for this pump.

The bottom radiator hose I got was NAPA # 8763

I bought RTV for the gasket , but never used any - just fine sandpapered everything and bolted it on.

I rented the fan wrench tools from Autozone - no charge at the time.

If your filler neck is rusted, you may want to get another on before getting into the job. Be careful with this piece of crap, it'll bend on you if you let it.

I used my stock original hose clamps where I could, just used a pair of 12" channel locks to remove them - takes some practice.

Tom in Pearland,Tx. '96 cc dually PSD.

spaceballs · 02-22-2007, 09:03 PM

OK...I think that it is coming together. So this thing uses two pulleys: one for the fan and another. I see it, and I see that I would need the grooved one.

Call me a n00b, but how can I tell the difference between pipe threads and straight threads?

I already ordered some parts from Napa to do this job. I got the lower radiator hose, and the thermostat that I got was THM371203, which was a 203-degree stat from a 95, which is a short stemmed t-stat, from what I understand. I replaced my thermostat a while ago with a 203 from dieselsite [PM me if someone is interested...] and I replaced my filler neck then. So it is new.

Let me get the calipers out and see if I can measure these holes. My pump came with plugs in it, so I will use those to find replacements. Thanks to the links to the great resources.

talford · 02-22-2007, 10:21 PM

Don't know if you have a serp. belt routing sticker right in front of the radiator top, like mine, but the routing stays the same except instead of going straight from the fan clutch to the steering pump, it will now come off the fan clutch, pass UNDER the new IH 8 ribbed pulley , then go to the power steering pump. If needs be, I'll be glad to describe the entire path later. So it's ribbed side around crank,flat side around fan clutch,ribbed side around new IH pulley, and I think ribbed side around power steering, and so on.

Again, I don't have the special large alternator or dual alternator set-up. If you buy the belt,and it don't fit , take it back and tell them you never put it on - what I did. You just may want to read the adjustment indicator on your tension pulley now , or at least as soon as you put it on and if you have too much wear , just replace the tensioner at the same time. I can see the indicator on the top of my tensioner, but have forgot how to decifer it. Also , I replaced the bearings in a couple of the ideler piulleys while I was at it , but May not be necessary, I don't want to promise I can dig up those timkin (?) #'s , but I just may have the old boxes laying around - just my luck they wouldn't have the part number on them.Let's see that tensioner pulley bolt is also a large torx, I think.

On the pipe vs. straight threads, I think pipe threads would get shallower near the end , but if you have plugs in these holes, ( you already know the degas fitting is pipe thread), I would go to the nearest hardware and see if a plain old pipe plug (guarenteed pipe thread) would fit in this other hole in the new pump, If it does , I'm thinking You have a pipe thread - trouble is, I don't know if they make 7/8 pipe plugs.. I wish you had an extra stock heater return fitting - it's brass with a 3" long neck 5/8" male hose barb with a , whats looks to my measure tape, to be a 7/8 " straight thread end going into the old pump , and has an oring on the 7/8"end. If you had an extra, you could try it first.I guess you could go to ford and get one and try it , then take it back if it didn't fit. I don't know why I didn't use mine if it would have swapped out .

On the top radiator hose , you will need one that goes over the belt. You may already have that. I can barely read the numbers on the one I have and I am only guessing it is a Ford part, anyway the faded #'s are rw5 0619 01 CL , or AU 0619 01 CL. don't know if thats any help or not.

Tom in Pearland.

spaceballs · 02-22-2007, 11:00 PM

I got a new hose, and I know the belt trick. Like you, I am running the stock alternator and single tensioner. I took a look at my sticker, and I understand how the belt runs now - too easy.

I will check a hardware store soon, but I placed an order for some of the fittings. I hope it works on.

manleyjt · 02-22-2007, 11:50 PM

If you want the skinny on how it was done do a search in teh old archives under my user name or under Renegade for Refresher in IH waterpump. I know there have been enough other members that have done teh water pump after we did ours that the info is out there. Also if you go to Renegade's website for his pictures you can see all teh details in the pictures, afterall they are worth a thousand words.

Using teh grooved pulley from international keeps alignment correct, but it is pricey. You will need the mount bolt and the dust cover also.

And jsut a recap, I am runnin gteh original length belt and the same belt as when I put the pump on many miles ago. To put it on you rout it and put teh belt on teh very top idler by rolling it flat and slipping it onto the pulley.

The only problem I have had is teh upper hose neck. i have had to replace it twice due to warpage and leaks. I wish soemone would make a billet aluminum neck for these trucks.

talford · 02-23-2007, 07:53 AM

tefloned all threads, neverseized all bolts, and If your going to paint it, nows the time.Went with zero unit filter (from IH).

Coolant change. For my 32 qt. system (8 gal.) (remember , some trucks have the 24 qt. or 6 gallon radiator ),I used 4 pints of SCA (from IH ). so, 4 pints X 5 'units'/ pint = 20 'units' total SCA. Therefore SCA 'level' will be computed as : 20 'units' ÷ 8 gallon system = 2.5 SCA 'level'.Bought the 4 or 6 pack of test strips from IH.

I don't mix this stuff or do any confusing math about how much distilled water is left in the block,After the flush, I just dump 4 pints of SCA, 4 gallons of Fleetrite (the green stuff from IH WITHOUT any SCA added ), and enough distilled water (about 3 gallons) to fill up the degas reservoir. When I do my flushes, I use Gooch's aerticle(he's on the 99 and up board ) :

I still am working on doing "LINKS" , so I can only say Gooch's article is well worth hunting up - it's the best step by step I've ever seen. Go to 99 and up superduty engine and drivetrain board, go to search function at bottom, type in 'gooch', hit search button, then hit the 'next' button 3 times, you will see the post titled 'RE:What coolant?',date is 11-06-06 , click on it , find Gooch's post, click on 'Here' is my proceedure, Then finaly there is the step by step.

Oh, I don't pull my starter to get the right side block drain, I reach over it (lay parallel to drive shaft)with a short-short 5/8 (?)combo wrench , but I definately take off the negative battery cables so I don't arch weld across the solonoid.

Tom in Pearland.

kfjensen · 02-23-2007, 12:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
tefloned all threads, neverseized all bolts, and If your going to paint it, nows the time.Went with zero unit filter (from IH).

Coolant change. For my 32 qt. system (8 gal.) (remember , some trucks have the 24 qt. or 6 gallon radiator ),I used 4 pints of SCA (from IH ). so, 4 pints X 5 'units'/ pint = 20 'units' total SCA. Therefore SCA 'level' will be computed as : 20 'units' ÷ 8 gallon system = 2.5 SCA 'level'.Bought the 4 or 6 pack of test strips from IH.

I don't mix this stuff or do any confusing math about how much distilled water is left in the block,After the flush, I just dump 4 pints of SCA, 4 gallons of Fleetrite (the green stuff from IH WITHOUT any SCA added ), and enough distilled water (about 3 gallons) to fill up the degas reservoir. When I do my flushes, I use Gooch's aerticle(he's on the 99 and up board ) :

I still am working on doing "LINKS" , so I can only say Gooch's article is well worth hunting up - it's the best step by step I've ever seen. Go to 99 and up superduty engine and drivetrain board, go to search function at bottom, type in 'gooch', hit search button, then hit the 'next' button 3 times, you will see the post titled 'RE:What coolant?',date is 11-06-06 , click on it , find Gooch's post, click on 'Here' is my proceedure, Then finaly there is the step by step.

Oh, I don't pull my starter to get the right side block drain, I reach over it (lay parallel to drive shaft)with a short-short 5/8 (?)combo wrench , but I definately take off the negative battery cables so I don't arch weld across the solonoid.

Tom in Pearland.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here ya go [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

talford · 02-23-2007, 12:57 PM

Mucho, Kevin.

Tom in Pearland.

spaceballs · 02-24-2007, 12:32 AM

I went on a parts run today, thanks to the excellent link from manleyjt and renegade and others. All I am waiting for now is the fitting to connect the degas bottle to the pump. In case this comes up again, that is a 1/2-inch pipe thread and 5/8-inch barbed ended fitting that DaveBey had to run to autozone at 11 to pick up. I picked mine up at Napa.

Does anyone have a completed photo of the pump with the belt on it? talford, I think that I am using your recipe for the most part. I guess that I just don't see how that grooved international pulley is going to fit on it. It looks like it just sits too far behind the fan pulley. I am sure that I got the right pulley.

u2slow · 02-24-2007, 12:43 AM

My pics are here

I believe its a 3/4NPT to 1" barb I used for the degas bottle hose.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

I recycled the heater hose fitting from the old, stock pump.

Note: I did the dual tensioner setup at the same time

spaceballs · 02-24-2007, 02:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I believe its a 3/4NPT to 1" barb I used for the degas bottle hose.

[/ QUOTE ]
Those pictures are some of the best that I have seen! Thank you, as that is exactly what I was looking for. The last piece is coming in the mail and I hope that it makes it here tomorrow. We will see.

talford · 02-24-2007, 11:56 AM

u2slow, thanks for riding to the rescue with some excellent photos.

Kurt, thats what my rig looks like. My IH groved pulley fits just like in u2slow's pic.. I didn't shim anything, it just bolted right up. I don't remember any adjustment to align it to the fan pulley. I really think I just slapped it on and it lined up perfect.

You tought me one thing . The famous 'DaveBey Midnight Fitting' mystery is solved.As you say it is 1/2" npt to 5/8" male hose barb. You can bet this will come up again, I hope one of us is there to shout it out.

Good luck on the fit-up.I'm anctious to know if that belt is going to work for you . Keep us posted.

Tom in Pearland,Tx. '96 cc dually PSD.