Allison adapter? - Diesel Forum

Independentreb12 · 01-12-2006, 06:45 PM

How about an allison tranny off of a duracrap with an adapter to mate it to our trucks? You tranny guys think they could hold up to 350 hp?

BurnedBronco · 01-12-2006, 08:01 PM

i would more likely look for an allison out of a 4700 or 4900 international with the t444e. only problem is there shaped like a cinder block, and floor clearence may be a problem.

004wdPSD · 01-12-2006, 09:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How about an allison tranny off of a duracrap with an adapter to mate it to our trucks? You tranny guys think they could hold up to 350 hp?

[/ QUOTE ] The Allison will hold power if it's built, stock they are weak. How do you plan on controlling it.......FWIW I can say that the Suncoast Stage 5 in mine holds 500RWHP on a daily basis [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]

gtspowerstroke · 01-12-2006, 09:13 PM

Before you go through that why don't you give Brian at BTS a call and he'll tell you why you don't want to do it. He was telling me they shift way worse because the way the disengauge one gear then go into the other. The E4OD/4R100 have sprag clutches so they hit the next gear and don't completely dissengauge the first one. The sprag clutch just lets it the first gear spin. At least this is how I understood it when he explained it to me. Give him a call and find out. Also the Allison in the isuzumaxs are a stripped down version. From what I was told it would have been a $4000 upgrade to go with the full Allison version so GM stripped it down of a lot of it's goodness to make it affordable. I honestly havne't heard anything that great about the ones in the GM trucks.

Suns_PSD · 01-13-2006, 09:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How about an allison tranny off of a duracrap with an adapter to mate it to our trucks? You tranny guys think they could hold up to 350 hp?

[/ QUOTE ]

The adaptors are an off the shelf part since the Series 2000 has been mated to the 444 in 1000s of UPS trucks as well as in the F650/750s.

It should more or less clear. Nothing a hammer could not fix. You would also need the GM transfer case if yours is a 4 x 4. Also would need to shorten your OEM driveshaft. That part is easy.

Need to buy the Allison computer (under the hood on a GM truck) as well as the wiring harness.

Then connect to the TPS. That part is easy.

Then the other wires that run the computer should all have some sort of equivalent in your wiring harness that you can use or you can use a wiring harness (maybe just part of?) from an F650 that uses an Allison 2000.

Get back w/ me when you get it done!

I'd love to do it but for me to buy an Allison 6 speed and all the associated hardware and then "hope" I can make it work just scares me too much.

There is a guy in TX who does this sort of stuff on a regular basis and he claims it would be quite easy just expensive in parts mainly.

PSDfreak · 01-13-2006, 01:01 PM

two guys here at work with newer duramax's are having problems with those allison trannies...On of them under 60k miles has already gone through 2 torque converters and the other truck 87k miles is toast as of last night...no unusual pulling or driving just normal day to day stuff...so would i do it...probly not, just get yours built up right...

my .02 anyway,
Casey

TimC63 · 01-13-2006, 01:14 PM

Hey Suns!

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The adaptors are an off the shelf part since the Series 2000 has been mated to the 444 in 1000s of UPS trucks as well as in the F650/750s.

[/ QUOTE ]
There MAY be a flaw in that statement. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] I have the T444E engine manual from IH and it shows pictures of their block having a standard or universal bellhousing (It may have been described as an SAE mount or SAE bellhousing???) Nonetheless, the illustrations of the back of the T444E block is VERY different from our PSD's. Perhaps the 650/750 line actually gets T444E's?

Where is Birken when you need him!?

I'd post a scan of the illustrations but I am guessing there would be some copyright issues with that! I can look tonight and see exactly how they described the standard mounting configuration.

My $0.02!

God Bless,

TC

CharlieII · 01-13-2006, 01:31 PM

My main question is WHY? Why? Why?

Why would anyone want an allison in place of a 4R100?

They are FAR more prone to being retards given their own need to F'up your shifts for you when they please (the 4R100 simply does what it's told). As of yet, the most powerfull trucks are running through a 4R100 I believe. And in light of all the wonderfull issues with the actual strength/ function of the tranny, it didn't come in the truck. Why would we want to work our A___s off just to get a tranny that is actually inferior in most respects, excluding the name? Allison sounds cooler than 4R100, but that's about the end of the list. The rest is just bs to take more vehicle control away from you and give it to the tranny to throw it away for you with retarded shifts.

I must be missing something here. Do many people actually think that the duracrap model allison stands up against a built 4R100 on any level (cost, overall strenth, durability, ease of installation, functionality)?

Why don't the crazy cummins croud run allisons? Why do they swap in 4R100's? Obviously price is low on the list for them, so they would surely choose the superior tranny right?

Charlie

apowerstroker · 01-13-2006, 02:28 PM

Just get a BTS tranny and be done....lol, no adapters, no nothing, just a bad@$$ tranny!!!

Suns_PSD · 01-13-2006, 02:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Suns!

[ QUOTE ]
The adaptors are an off the shelf part since the Series 2000 has been mated to the 444 in 1000s of UPS trucks as well as in the F650/750s.

[/ QUOTE ]
There MAY be a flaw in that statement. TC

[/ QUOTE ]

You certainly might be correct. It was explained to me that it a simple bolt on deal.

Charlie, Charlie, Charlie. You know not of what you speak.

If you ever get a chance to do the startability, gradability, torque curve mapping, cruising speed vs. RPM and other formulas that determine how a vehicle is going to perform w/ different gearing and tranny selections you will very quickly discover that additional tranny gears offer such profound performance advantages as to make anything with less gears nearly obsolete.

I mess w/ this junk at work when I'm specing out Kenworths.

I agree the Allison is known to have a few faults in stock form, but if I could get one to work in my truck I would then spend whatever it took to get it fully built and it would then be far superior to the 4R100.

W/ the correct rear end gearing I could get:

1) lower starting ratio in first
2) less RPM drop between gears
3) lower RPM at cruising speed

What is not to love? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

CharlieII · 01-13-2006, 06:26 PM

If that's really such an issue, that's what auxilaries are for, [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Gearvendors.

I understand how multiple gears mean more efficient use of the powerband, but I would sacrifice all of that for a nice simple tranny that does what it's told and is decently priced to handle all I can throw. I don't care about how much efficiency I "could" have with another gear, if it's pulling through those, and then on top of that it isn't even in that gear that was supposed to help me because it's off doing it's own thing in OD, lol. Then it shifts back down two gears and just about throws me through the dash while simultaneously unlocking the TC for no apparent reason, lol. Then on top of that, it learns how I drive so that it can get pissy at me and start shifting to totally counter my driving style, lol.

Did I mention that I hate autos, lol. I will run the 4R100 with the PCS module that allows me to control it perfectly with a joystick ("tiptronic"). Because "Automatics" suck. But full manual autos are the chit.

Charlie

97Strokerman · 01-13-2006, 07:47 PM

My response is, why spend that kind of money on that, when you can get a BTS for probably cheaper and more reliable..................Dave

TimC63 · 01-14-2006, 02:05 AM

OK, I took a closer look at the illustrations in the IH manual and it does show a standard medium duty "Flywheel Housing" BUT it appears that the housing is bolted to the back of the block, so Suns may be right and the blocks may all be the same. Of course you may need that standardized flywheel housing to mate the engine to a medium duty application of the Allison tranny...

TC