Hydroboost install done!! I guess I'll try a Parachute!! - Diesel Forum

**DIESELDUTTON** · 09-17-2008, 09:28 PM

I just completed my hydroboost install, it took me longer to locate the spring and push rod then it took to install. I ended up buying a complete hydroboost from a junk yard from a 03 Super Duty just for the push rod and I guess I can use it for a core. The pedal feels great, maybe a little to firm, but much better then before, but I believe my truck stops worse then it did before. Then I thought maybe the spool valve has to move a certain distance before it routes the high pressure oil to where it needs to go so I spaced the master cylinder about 1\2" from the booster to see if that would help and it helped a little, now the pedal moves about 3\4" before it gets firm. Does anyone know how a hydroboost unit works? I dont know what else to do, I have 4 wheel disc, every brake line on the entire truck has been replaced, RABS valve is bypassed, 4 wheel disc master cylinder, all rotors, pads and calipers were replaced last year when I did the Dana 60 install. My power steering pump is about 1 year old, the Bendix master cylinder was new last year and the hydro boost is a remanufactured unit from Cardone. What am I missing? Thanks guys

Frank

gnxtc2 · 09-17-2008, 10:05 PM

Did you get a hydroboost unit for a OBS F-Super Duty? Maybe the pushrod is different between the two?

Also, you have rear discs. The OBS F-Super Duty master has a bigger bore.

Maybe a combination of the two is the problem, don't know.

I'm curious in this also because I was researching the part numbers to get the parts. I priced out the hydroboost unit at the dealer and there was no core charge.

Did you check this out: www.obspowerstroke.com

Keep us posted.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

**DIESELDUTTON** · 09-17-2008, 10:35 PM

Thanks Billy,

Yeah I have a obs F-Super Duty booster and a master cylinder for the same 97 F- Super Duty, they have rear disc so I figured I would be good to go. I have been reading about this swap and I believe I read that the SD (99 and up) push rod had to be modified, the one I have is 4 1\2" and is not adjustable like our vacume booster push rods are and thats why I spaced the m\c 1\2" for testing. I did just read that Ford hydroboost units can be tough to get the air out. I will take a look at it tomorrow night when I get home from work. I think it would have been cheaper to by a new hydroboost from Ford instead of a reman and 5 hours checking every junk yard in south jersey for a used hydroboost just to use the push rod. Thanks Billy

Frank

Stock Stroke · 09-29-2008, 07:03 PM

what did you guys do about the stock vacuum pump?

**DIESELDUTTON** · 09-29-2008, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stock Stroke

what did you guys do about the stock vacuum pump?

I didnt do anything with mine, I just removed the line going to the booster and capped it at the plastic manifold. If the pump goes bad again I might look into a electric pump to run the heat\- a\c. I removed my F-S\D master cylinder and installed my stock (smaller bore) master cylinder and my brakes got a little better, but by no means are they stopping my truck the wat they should be. This is the worst stopping car or truck I have ever owned. I dont know if I have the wrong compound pads on or what, I had napa brand severe duty pads on the front and the stock pads that Blackbirds ships with there rear disc kit. Then I switched to a cheaper softer front pad and a better set for the rear and the brakes still suck, so I figured I would install the hydro boost (4 times more power) now I have to really stand on the pedal. I dont know how much pressure I have at the calipers but all of the brakes are 250* when I come back from a test drive. I spoke to a tech at Cardone and he said the power steering pump is fine the pressure is made in the steering gear, I dont understand, the hp hose goes to the hydro boost first and then to the steering box. I have had just about enough of this braking system. Thanks guys

Frank

Stock Stroke · 09-29-2008, 09:38 PM

isnt leaving the vacuum pump on a waste? it would just be adding drag to the engine without any purpose to it, has anyone deleted it?

**bugman** · 09-29-2008, 09:50 PM

You need to keep the vacuum pump to run the heater/ac vents. Or you can update it to the electric one that the 99+'s use.

Jim

gnxtc2 · 10-01-2008, 06:40 AM

Frank

I would junk those front pads. I had a similiar problem when the guy sold me carbon ceramic pads for the front. I put them on and the truck would not stop. I took them off and returned them instantly. I then got the Performance Friction Carbon Metallic. Performance Friction Brakes The truck stops way better and that was when I had the rear drum. Every since switching over to the Blackbird disc, it made it that much better. I think the rotors and pads that came with the Blackbird kit are not the greatest. I already blued the rear rotors because I lost my trailer brakes in PA going downhill.

I will probably be switching over to the hydroboost in a few months, just need to finish a few open projects.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Stock Stroke · 10-01-2008, 06:55 AM

bugman thanks for the response i didnt know that, this might seem like a stupid question but did you bench bleed the master cylinder? if you didnt thats your whole problem

**DIESELDUTTON** · 10-02-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnxtc2

Frank

I would junk those front pads. I had a similiar problem when the guy sold me carbon ceramic pads for the front. I put them on and the truck would not stop. I took them off and returned them instantly. I then got the Performance Friction Carbon Metallic. Performance Friction Brakes The truck stops way better and that was when I had the rear drum. Every since switching over to the Blackbird disc, it made it that much better. I think the rotors and pads that came with the Blackbird kit are not the greatest. I already blued the rear rotors because I lost my trailer brakes in PA going downhill.

I will probably be switching over to the hydroboost in a few months, just need to finish a few open projects.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Thanks Billy,

I will look into the Performance Friction pads, I did change the rear pads, the ones that came with the kit made to much dust. I did bench bleed my master cylinder and my truck will stop if I stand on the pedal. What kind of front rotors do you have? Thanks

Frank

Larry S. · 10-04-2008, 11:07 PM

With all the brake mods you have, you should have fantastic brakes. I still have the original shoes in the rear and nothing special Napa pads in the front with original but turned rotors. Should we say fully stock. This is the best braking truck I have owned and it is far better than my wife's 2001 E350 cut away motor home. I do believe the original front pads were better than the NAPAs. Whatever, I think there is a problem in your truck you have been missing. What it is, I have no idea.

**DIESELDUTTON** · 10-05-2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry S.

With all the brake mods you have, you should have fantastic brakes. I still have the original shoes in the rear and nothing special Napa pads in the front with original but turned rotors. Should we say fully stock. This is the best braking truck I have owned and it is far better than my wife's 2001 E350 cut away motor home. I do believe the original front pads were better than the NAPAs. Whatever, I think there is a problem in your truck you have been missing. What it is, I have no idea.

Yeah, I dont know what I'm missing, maybe its the 88 model Dana 60 in the front, calipers, pads, hoses, hardware, etc were all new last year, but I have replaced every line\hose on the truck. Maybe I have to many parts that were not designed to work with each other. I compare it to our stock 97 250 at work, it will stop no matter what, with very little pedal effort. I guess I could check the pressure at each caliper, then I should know which way to go. Thanks again

Frank

Haz Tanker · 10-05-2008, 12:40 PM

Forgive me for asking this if you have done it or it doesn't matter but did you use the power steering pump to go with the hydraboost? I would think if the pump were doing more than just steering duty it would need a higher flow rate to work properly.

**DIESELDUTTON** · 10-05-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haz Tanker

Forgive me for asking this if you have done it or it doesn't matter but did you use the power steering pump to go with the hydraboost? I would think if the pump were doing more than just steering duty it would need a higher flow rate to work properly.

Thats what I was thinking, but I called A-1 Cardone and spoke to a tech and he said my pump is fine, then he told me the pump only makes 400-500 psi and the steering box\gear makes the pressure, now I dont know enough to know if he is giving me the proper information. I do know that since the hydro-boost install, my pump makes noise at idle. Thanks

Frank

Haz Tanker · 10-05-2008, 04:27 PM

The operating pressures could and should be the same if the required steering box pressure is the same however the volume could be too low(not moving enough oil) for your original spec pump to do both steer and stop. It is in most cases with hydraulics when you add power users at the same pressure you will need more volume. I would imagine the Ford part number would remain the same if indeed there is no difference.

Just for an example, as you know if you put your thumb over the end of a garden hose you will increase the pressure by reducing the volume. Your issue may be caused because the pump can't move enough oil because with the brake booster (it increased flow but reduced restriction required for proper pressure) you do not maintain hydraulic (force) pressure required for both loads on the system(pump). It is just a thought, you may want to(if possible) restrict the return circuit (if used) from the booster and see if it helps. It may be possible the SD pump has a pressure regulator valve on the return side.

I am not sure about the actual exacution used by Ford for this system, just trying to help from what I know about working with various hydraulic systems for 30 years or so.