I used Prestone Anitfreeze good for everything it says???

[MARCSPSD]

I just did a search COOLANTS PSD

Many threads came up. Seemed like a lot of very informed posts. The "experts" said to only add SCA to GREEN coolant. Do not add to ELC coolants they said. (usually orange or red) This will "overcharge" or ruin their chemical composition.

These older trucks all came with green coolant. In the last few years some experts on this site said Ford later said that newer types of coolant, like they put in the new trucks, is ok.

I myself am no antifreeze engineer so also am looking for the answer.

[444-4D]

Originally Posted by midwestconnection

It's looking like I will have to drain it.

The coolant you used isn't one I would have used but I see no need to drain it. The Ford SCA is Fleetguard DCA-4. The minimum SCA level is 1.2 units per gallon of coolant and the maximum is 3.0 units per gallon. One unit is 3.2 ounces of SCA. So if your van has a 7 gallon cooling system, three 16 ounce bottles would put you at 2.14 units.

[agomez]

do not add to much sca to the coolant it will eat your waterpump up fast....all the years that I have been here never seen a powerstroke with cavatation problems...

[94strokerace]

The machinist that honed my cylinders a few years ago said his 7.3 hydro locked from a pin hole in one of his cylinder walls (he specified which one, but i dont recall). It has happened, could happen and i suppose will happen if not prevented.

Keep in mind that info i posted from Steve listing specific brand coolants is dated...

[SrTrainer]

Hi Midwestconnection,

My name is John and I’m a technical trainer for Prestone. I wanted to offer a little input.

Just to clarify, you purchased our Prestone Extended Life “All Makes All Models” antifreeze/coolant for your vehicle and mixed a DCA4 additive in with the coolant. Correct? This particular Prestone coolant is formulated for any automotive and light-duty truck; it does not have the Nitrite level you need to control cavitation (vapor bubble formation) in a heavy-duty diesel engine with cylinder liners. You mixed the DCA4, which is a mixture of Phosphate, Nitrite, and Molybdate, in with the antifreeze which is designed to give you protection and help control cavitation. As long as the mixture of DCA4 is at the correct OEM level (check your owner’s manual), you will have the proper cavitation control for your cooling system.

In essence, you did what you were supposed to.

One thing to be aware of, however, is that by adding an additive to the antifreeze you do not get the long life benefits of the coolant (generally provides protection of the cooling system from rust and corrosion for up to 5 years or 150,000 miles when used properly). You will need to monitor and add the additive (DCA4) at the OEM recommended interval and/or monitor the Glycol (freeze protection) and Nitrite level with test strips (you can pick those up at most local parts stores).

I’d be glad to offer further assistance on any cooling system related subject. Don’t hesitate to ask. I’ll check back on the forum and respond as soon as possible.

Cheers,

John

[94strokerace]

John, thanks for your input. Does it matter that we dont have cylinder liners?

[midwestconnection]

Originally Posted by SrTrainer

Hi Midwestconnection,

My name is John and I’m a technical trainer for Prestone. I wanted to offer a little input.

Just to clarify, you purchased our Prestone Extended Life “All Makes All Models” antifreeze/coolant for your vehicle and mixed a DCA4 additive in with the coolant. Correct? This particular Prestone coolant is formulated for any automotive and light-duty truck; it does not have the Nitrite level you need to control cavitation (vapor bubble formation) in a heavy-duty diesel engine with cylinder liners. You mixed the DCA4, which is a mixture of Phosphate, Nitrite, and Molybdate, in with the antifreeze which is designed to give you protection and help control cavitation. As long as the mixture of DCA4 is at the correct OEM level (check your owner’s manual), you will have the proper cavitation control for your cooling system.

In essence, you did what you were supposed to.

One thing to be aware of, however, is that by adding an additive to the antifreeze you do not get the long life benefits of the coolant (generally provides protection of the cooling system from rust and corrosion for up to 5 years or 150,000 miles when used properly). You will need to monitor and add the additive (DCA4) at the OEM recommended interval and/or monitor the Glycol (freeze protection) and Nitrite level with test strips (you can pick those up at most local parts stores).

I’d be glad to offer further assistance on any cooling system related subject. Don’t hesitate to ask. I’ll check back on the forum and respond as soon as possible.

Cheers,

John

Thanks for your input, I bought three more bottles of the Ford additive today. I'll get the test strips tomorrow and add until I get to the desires level, between 2 and 3 I think I'm hearing. I'm glad I don't have to dump my new antifreeze. I am going to go with Fleetgard next time and not have to mess with it. Right now I'm trying to survive my first year and I'm about two weeks into it and learning fast. I completed the full service today with Full Synthetic in everything to the tune of about $400.

[SrTrainer]

94strokerace

On a full cast block cavitation pitting of the cylinders are not much of a problem and you may use Prestone Extended Life “All Makes All Models Antifreeze/coolant. Just follow your OEM recommended cooling system maintenance and do a complete flush and fill to remove any old antifreeze and contaminates from the cooling system.

I don’t know if you are familiar with cavitation pitting so I will explain it, if you are already familiar with it then ignore the next paragraph.

Cavitation pitting on diesel engines, with cylinder liners, happens during the combustion cycle (when the piston strokes up and down). The cylinder liners vibrate, and with the incorrect antifreeze/water and additives mixture, vapor bubbles can form on the liners and implode. It looks like a vertical row of pin holes in the metal liner. Using a heavy-duty coolant with Nitrite or Nitrite/Molybdate as an inhibitor protects against cavitation pitting. There are HD Extended Life coolants or HD Low Silicate conventional coolants which are pre-charged with SCA’s (SCA stands for Supplemental Coolant Additives). With these coolants you do not have to mix SCA’s or DCA’s to the coolant on initial fill because they already have the correct amount of additives pre-mixed with the coolant. Just add water at a 50/50 mix and you’re done.
One Note: With the Pre-charged HD low silicate conventional antifreeze you still have to monitor the additive levels.

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

John
Sr. Technical Trainer
Honeywell CPG
Prestone

[MichaelPatrick]

As I said earlier, I use the Prestone with excellent results. It is convenient to find at every auto parts and Walmart, etc. Of course, I use the SCA additives as instructed, and use the test strips. No problems.

Midwestconnection, even if you buy antifreeze with the SCA already in there, you still have to test it periodically, as the SCA additives need to be supplemented after a certain amount of time and mileage, so depending on how long you leave the antifreeze in there.

[MARCSPSD]

Thank you SrTrainer.

Question: If you use of the the ELC heavy duty "red" coolants, do you have to recharge on a regular basis with SCA additive? If so does this shorten the life of the coolant?

If you did use the Prestone discussed above, do you have to maintain it the same as the "green" coolant with the SCA additive?

I understand that our stock engines have no cylinder liners (7.3). Is this correct that we can use the prestone all makes and models? Do we have cylinder liners?

Thank you in advance for your help.

[midwestconnection]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

As I said earlier, I use the Prestone with excellent results. It is convenient to find at every auto parts and Walmart, etc. Of course, I use the SCA additives as instructed, and use the test strips. No problems.

Midwestconnection, even if you buy antifreeze with the SCA already in there, you still have to test it periodically, as the SCA additives need to be supplemented after a certain amount of time and mileage, so depending on how long you leave the antifreeze in there.

OK, I'll do that, Thanks.

[SrTrainer]

Good point MichaelPatrick and you are correct.
Here is an example: if you use Prestone HD Low Silicate Antifreeze/Coolant Pre-charged with SCA’s the antifreeze will last up to 3000 hours or 150,000 miles but, during this cycle you still have to monitor the antifreeze and inhibitors. Then add SCA’s, when needed, to achieve the hours or mileage. The benefit is you do not have to mix SCA’s on initial fill. Most problems accrue from improper mixing. HD Low Silicate antifreeze pre-charged with SCA’s is a good coolant to use if you do not want to use an HD ELC coolant.

[SrTrainer]

MARCSPSD
These are good questions and I hear them when I do training all over N.
America. First I’ll answer the HD ELC questions and then come back later and answer the other question (meeting time soon).

If you use HD ELC (red) antifreeze you do not use SCA’s with this type of coolant. By adding SCA’s you loose the extended life capabilities of the inhibitors (additives). You basically dilute the coolant and inhibitors. Another point is you should not use a coolant filter with SCA’s when using an HD ELC coolant; you should only use coolant filters with no SCA’s (the plain coolant filters).

Here is an example: Prestone HD ELC (red) Antifreeze/Coolant is good for up to 6000 hours or 300,000 miles. At the 6000 hours or 300,000 mile point you would add an HD Extender to the coolant and get another 6000 hours or 300,000 miles. So, on an HD ELC coolant you could get up to a total of 12,000 hours or 600,000 miles. The HD Extender is different than SCA or DCA, it is an extended life inhibitor package that last longer than SCA’s.

One note: When I do training I will always advise shops to do a complete fluid (lab) analysis of the antifreeze/coolant to look for other problems. You have to remember that the antifreeze/coolant is going to stay in the system for a longer period of time and a fluid (lab) analysis will quite often find problems before they get to the catastrophic point. Also, this would let you know whether to change the coolant at 300,000 miles or add the HD Extender if everything is alright with the cooling system.

[grandpas97]

Since you are the Coolant God and I have been stressing over this for some time. Could you give your opinion on how to flush the system most efficiently? I was thinking with the hose and then distilled water for a bit. Don't feel like messing with the plugs and all that. I am a big stickler with maintenance so I will change the coolant every year or two anyway. If the truck runs long enough it will circulate by the plugs is my thinking. I could be wrong though... it's happened before.

On well water if that matters.

[SrTrainer]

MARCSPSD
To answer your other questions, it is advisable to follow your OEM recommended maintenance schedule for the cooling system i.e. change interval or if they require testing/addition of SCA’s and at what time/amount to add SCA’s. The exception to that rule would be if you used Prestone HD ELC (red) antifreeze/coolant in which you would not add SCA’s (refer to the last post).

You are correct on no cylinder liners or also known as wet sleeves. There are still concerns about cavitation pitting with water pump impellers, blocks, cylinder heads, etc… But cavitation pitting on cylinder liners can happen quickly and be costly for HD fleets (or anyone). Of course there are other factors that can cause pitting, like air and/or electrolysis just to name a couple.

There is also a benefit when using an antifreeze like Prestone HD low silicate antifreeze/coolant that is pre-charged with SCA’s. The benefit would be the initial cost of not having to buy Type 2 or Type 4 SCA on the initial fill. You also reduce the risk of improper mixing on initial fill. Remember, too much additive is just as bad as too little additive.

Just a reminder; when changing antifreeze you should always flush the cooling system with a flushing solvent. Flush the system a couple of times with quality tap water to remove all of the flushing solvent. When mixing your 50/50 antifreeze/water mixture remember there can be 15 to 25 percent water left in the block after flushing; unless you remove block plugs to drain the engine. Test the freeze point of the antifreeze after running the vehicle to mix and after the engine cools.

Cheers,