Out with Amsoil dual bypass filter, in with FS-2500 - Diesel Forum

shoebear · 12-27-2005, 06:22 PM

I've run an Amsoil dual bypass filter and Delvac 1 for the last 20K miles, with oil analysis from both Blackstone and OAI every 5K. I've gotten disappointing wear metal numbers the whole time. For example, the most recent analysis showed 22 for lead, 13 for copper, and 4 for chromium with 10K on the oil. Normal values are 4, 4, and 1, respectively. Insoluables have held pretty steady at 0.5%. I've changed the oil once for two runs of 10K each.

I cut open my bypass filter that I removed at that analysis just to see what I could see. The element consists of a stack of pressboard disks. Each disk has a hole in the middle and fits around a perforated center tube. The stack is compressed by a large spring at the end of the filter housing. This design seems like it might get filled with dirt and clogged pretty fast, since it does not have any non-microscopic open places where dirt can build up. The disks were black all the way through, and there did not seem to be any extra dirt built up on the outside of the disks.

Blackstone's comment on the most recent analysis:

[ QUOTE ]
DAN: Optimists that we are, we thought lead would improve this time since it could have been a contaminant rather than wear. Not only did lead not improve, it increased in this oil run 10,366 miles, and copper, another bearing wear metal, jumped along with it. So did iron and chrome increase, metals that commonly come from ring/liner wear. The bypass filter doesn't appear to be doing you much good with insolubles reading at 0.5%. This is a routine reading for factory in-line oil filtration. Air filtration is okay, but not superb. Sample again in 5,000 mi. Wear is too high.

[/ QUOTE ]
This (plus a few other issues) has convinced me that Amsoil does not have as good a bypass filter design as I thought.

Therefore, I decided to buy a new bypass filter. My choice was really between Oilguard and Filtration Solutions FS-2500. Both seem to be fine filters. I researched both today and was still undecided which to pick. So I called Blackstone and asked them. The tech said that, while Blackstone has no official opinion, he personally thought the Filtration Solutions filter did a better job. Also, FS sells blems at the end of the year, and I got one at a good price.

FS has a very convincing video demo comparing it with the Amsoil bypass filter. The demo is long (I think about 25 - 30 min) and the Amsoil comparison is near the end.

Filtration Solutions

Anyway, I have some extra unused Amsoil filters to get rid of -- 4 SDF26 and 2 BE100. If you want 'em, send me a PM with an offer.

I'm unhappy that Amsoil didn't work out. Oh well.

On edit: I forgot to mention -- I also cut open the Amsoil full-flow filter. It appeared to be a normal cellulose (paper) element, not synthetic. I'm not an expert, so I could be wrong -- but at least it does not look like a Fleetguard Stratapore element.

JonG · 12-27-2005, 11:03 PM

Wow shoebear I've got the dual bypass system and have never gotten any soilds readings other than 0.01. Even before installing the bypass filter I would see 0.21 0.23 0.23 for three samples in a row on solids. I also run Amsoil 15w-40 and have the same oil in there for the last 21k I know that running the long term oil changes the wear metal numbers will stack on each other, each sample. Hope your new system works out better, the bypass is supposed to clean the oil right up. I've had great results with mine. Good luck [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]

shoebear · 12-27-2005, 11:13 PM

Yeah, something isn't right.

gtspowerstroke · 12-28-2005, 02:40 AM

This is kind of interesting. I guess once you get some miles on the new filter system you'll know if it was the filtersystem or something else that's up. Intersting what he had to say about air filtration as well.

shoebear · 12-28-2005, 10:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is kind of interesting . . .

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That's only because it's not your truck. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Intersting what he had to say about air filtration as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I saw that. But my silicone numbers are still in the acceptable range, so air filtration is a secondary issue for me right now. Also, a properly functioning bypass filter would mitigate the effects of marginal air filtration. I'm positive that my TYMAR intake system is sealed up tightly all the way to the turbo intake.

NOTE: If you have a TYMAR intake and are running oil analysis, please tell me how your silicone numbers compare to mine. Please indicate if you have a bypass oil filter or not, and if so, what kind.

Here is my analysis history since I added my Amsoil dual bypass system.

A couple things you should know:<ul type="square">[*]I have to add about a gallon of oil in 5000 miles. I have no idea where this oil is going. I did a compression test and all cylinders looked OK.[*]The high fuel in oil test on 3/6/04 was right after I got my BTS tranny. Brian also fixed an oil pan gasket leak at the same time, and he used brake cleaner to clean the gasket area. I'm thinking some brake cleaner got into the oil that way and skewed the test.[/list]ELEMENTS IN PARTS PER MILLION
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>MI/HR ON OIL | 10,366 UNIT / 6,607 9,480 5,956 902
MI/HR ON UNIT | 125,391 LOCATION 120,632 114,025 110,501 105,447 UNIVERSAL
SAMPLE DATE | 11/11/05 AVERAGES 02/19/05 07/12/04 03/06/04 12/13/03 AVERAGES
+----------------------------------------------------------------------
ALUMINUM | 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
CHROMIUM | 4 2 2 2 2 1 1
IRON | 35 21 21 20 17 8 17
COPPER | 13 7 5 12 7 3 4
LEAD | 22 12 11 15 11 3 4
TIN | 1 2 4 3 1 0 1
MOLYBDENUM | 4 3 3 3 4 1 15
NICKEL | 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
MANGANESE | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
SILVER | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
TITANIUM | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
POTASSIUM | 0 0 1 4 0 0 1
BORON | 33 41 40 41 39 50 99
SILICON | 8 6 7 12 6 4 9
SODIUM | 2 1 1 2 2 1 3
CALCIUM | 2497 2403 2265 2239 2443 2448 3197
MAGNESIUM | 514 477 468 468 486 450 79
PHOSPHORUS | 1143 1147 1118 1079 1033 1180 1110
ZINC | 1346 1304 1240 1245 1142 1325 1276
BARIUM | 0 0 0 0 0 0 1</pre><hr />PROPERTIES
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>MI/HR ON OIL | 10,366 6,607 9,480 5,956 902 VALUES
MI/HR ON UNIT | 125,391 120,632 114,025 110,501 105,447 SHOULD
SAMPLE DATE | 11/11/05 02/19/05 07/12/04 03/06/04 12/13/03 BE
+-----------------------------------------------------------
SUS VISCOSITY @ 210 ºF | 71.4 73.4 74.3 71.8 71.3 67-78
FLASHPOINT IN ºF | 420 455 435 375 440 >415
FUEL % | <0.5 <0.5 <0.5 4.0 <0.5 <2.0
ANTIFREEZE % | 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0
WATER % | 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 <0.1
INSOLUBLES % | 0.5 0.5 0.4 0.5 0.3 <0.8</pre><hr />

sdan27 · 12-28-2005, 04:20 PM

i have about 270,000 miles on my truck. i've been doing oil analysis somewhat regularly for about the last 70,000 miles. only once, the very first oil analysis i did they said my lead was a little high but nothing to worry about. since then i've never had any wear metals high and my insolubles are only at like .02 or something. i don't have any of my analysis reports with me right now so i can't give any actual numbers. i use texaco ursa super plus dino oil and use a fleetguard lf777 bypass filter. i usually do about 10,000 mile oil changes. that's with mixed city and highway driving. during the week i only drive about 10 miles one way to work or about that same distance around town. weekends i might do longer trips. the only thing i can think is look at what type of driving you're doing and maybe switch engine oils. i asked blackstone once if they thought it would be worth it for me to switch to synthetic oil and they said the texaco stuff was doing so well it wouldn't be worth the extra money. maybe you could try the same thing just to se how it treats you.

shoebear · 12-28-2005, 05:14 PM

My driving is mostly stop and go in town. I do make occasional long trips in it, and I also pull our camper with it a few times in the summer. I don't usually hot-rod in it, but occasionally I will accelerate briskly just to hear the turbo sing to me.

I do plan to switch oil with my next change; not because I'm not happy with Delvac 1, but because I can't get it anywhere in town except an oil distributor with limited hours. I thought I'd give synthetic Rotella T a try. Walmart carries it and it's less expensive than the Delvac 1. If I continue to have trouble, I might try dino oil again.

I bought my truck used at 85K miles. It has consumed oil ever since I got it. I wonder if something happened that the previous owner didn't tell me. But if compression is OK and it's not leaking oil anymore, where could the oil be going?

I'm looking to the FS-2500 to reduce insoluables dramatically. If it does and the wear metals are still high, I'll probably take it into Greg Budwine at Performance Plus, the local PowerStroke diesel guru. But I'm getting ahead of myself . . . let's see what the FS-2500 does first.

TimMiller · 12-29-2005, 05:00 AM

Have you checked your injector o-rings? You could be burnin oil.

shoebear · 12-29-2005, 08:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Have you checked your injector o-rings? You could be burnin oil.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a good thought -- but yes, I changed them a couple of years ago to try to fix the problem. It made no difference.

Powerstroke2000 · 12-29-2005, 12:30 PM

Shoebear, I've had my Amsoil dual by-pass for years now, and might have been one of the first OBS trucks to install one, and have had extremely good results from mine.
On occassion I've had higher numbers that grabbed my attention, but nothing that concerned me or the company that I send my analysis to (Finning Canada).

The last oil 15w - 40w Amsoil HD I ran for 60K, and only changed it because I put new injectors in. I then switched to 5w - 30w Series 3000 and will soon be sending in my first analysis.

Obviously it could be one of many things with your higher than normal lead and copper, but these engines are getting older now, and may very well be wearing some now.
I believe the turbo bearings (thrust bearing) often can emit levels of both minerals, as can other wear. What is "extreme" I don't know, but thats why we come here, to try to find out issues like that. Blackstone should be able to tell you what extreme numbers are, and perhaps an oil change is needed, where you can then check your oil at perhaps the half way point..to see where you are at??

Dale

sdan27 · 12-29-2005, 05:17 PM

have you thought to try a blow-by test? since your compression is good i would think that blow-by should be within specs but that's about the only other thing i can think of right now. shouldn't have any more than like 6 or 7 inches i think. can always check what the fuel in your filter bowl looks like to know if your o-rings are all right. oil can make a difference because i said i usually use that texaco stuff but once i did an oil change at my work and used this exxon xd-3 stuff and even though it's supposed to be good oil my truck used a lot more that oil change than it usually has before.

shoebear · 12-29-2005, 06:40 PM

Trying different oils is a good idea. If the Rotella T synthetic I already bought doesn't work, I'll try the Texaco next. Then I'll probably take it into Performance Plus and have Greg Budwine take a look.

I did the compression test myself. I didn't have the right adapter; they sent me the IDI adapters which have the correct threads but interfere with the rocker arms. I got the test done anyway -- I would think that if the wrong adapter caused a problem it would produce a false bad (low) reading instead of a false good (high) reading. But I've screwed up lots of other seemingly simple things before, so it's certainly possible that I screwed it up somehow. If I did do it right, though, I think the compression test would show blowby.

Another clue that I don't have a blowby problem is that Blackstone told me that I don't have a soot problem in the oil. Apparently they measure that but don't put it on the report they send to me.

Thanks for your suggestions, I really appreciate them.

JonG · 12-29-2005, 11:06 PM

My last numbers where in order with open air intake
silicon 11, 17, 11
iron 28, 39, 51
lead 14, 19, 33
copper 10, 14, 29

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]

Bret_B · 01-03-2006, 09:16 PM

Shoebear, Curious to know what interval you were changing the full flow and bypass filter at? What was the reason for oil change at 10K miles?

Not the first I've heard of people having thoughts their by-pass wasn't working correctly, or was the cause of a mysterious oil loss.

Just some thoughts though, you mention the short stop and go driving, as well as a downhill jog home at the end of the day. With the truck not getting up to "operating" temps, is a contributor, but not the cause. The engine not operating long enough between stop and go's will be a contributor to oil loss, but not a cause. I know you're looking for a cause though so the above are just some thoughts. Good luck.

Bret

JOAT · 01-03-2006, 10:04 PM

Hi Shoebear,
I'm surprised you've kept the AMSOIL bypass this long. Seems like a good year since you got the first bad analysis results, not to mention the bypass being noisy. I've had no real bad analysis with my bypass setup and 40k oil changes so far. Higher metals than some people but not alarming. I like others am looking forward to hearing what happens with the new setup.