Well, this one's a bit of a long story, so first I'll just ask you my question (thread title already did), then I'll explain why I'm asking it. Anyway, I've got a 1988 F-250 IDI and I'm wondering if I can flush out the coolant system and run the organic acid long life coolant instead of having to check for SCA (DCA4) levels at every oil change. Is my old, non-turbo IDi compatable with this type of coolant or will it kill the beast.
And now for the background details:
About a month ago, I decided to test my motor oil at the local Finning SOS lab for the first time ever. The results came back looking very scary. They said I had high soduim in my oil and some metals that might indicate "bearing overlay" (wish I knew what that meant).
They said the sodium levels might indicate coolant entry into a cylinder. Since I knew this could mean cavitation or corrosion right through a cylinder wall, I wasn't a happy camper to hear that news.
I immediately drained out my coolant and foolishly refilled the rad with tap water and a jug of red long life (low silicate) diesel coolant. Recent internet study of this issue has convinced me that that was a dumb thing to do, but I was desperate to eliminate one possible cause of the sodium in my oil.
Now, about a month later, I've been noticing my engine temp guage has been only getting about halfway tp to where it normally does at full warm up. Normally it never really got up past the "N" in the word "normal", so it sorta freaked me out a bit. I had meant to get back to fix the coolant issue sooner, but I've been really distracted with a lot of stuff coming at me lately (pathetic excuse, I know, but it true)
Anyway, today I emptied the "coolant" (mostly tap water with a gallon of red ELC coolant) and refilled the rad with the green stuff and added almost 16 ounces (one bottle) of DCA4 supplementary coolant additive. The temp guage reads normal now.
My oil test never showed water, fuel or antifreeze in the sample, so I'm wondering where the sodium actually came from? I mean, if it actually was from coolant pitting into a cylinder, wouldn't there be water and ethylene glycol in the oil sample?
Assuming there's no sodium in it, I figure if my engine is okay with organic acid coolant, using that stuff will eliminate one variable in pinpointing the source of the sodium. DCA4 has sodium in it, so if I can stop using it, I'll be happy.
If organic acid ELCs are not good in my 7.3 IDI engine, can I safely switch over to a propylene glycol product like Evans waterless coolant?
Another potential source of sodium in my oil might have been badly brewed biodiesel with sodium hydroxide residue still left in it. I quit running biodiesel at the time I recieved the bad oil report, so my next oil test should look better.
Hopefully, after I get this sodium thing figured out, maybe I can address the bearing overlay thing too.
Any advice much appreciated!
Last edited by Fluxcore : 07-14-2008 at 05:14 AM.
Reason: adding more details
>Another potential source of sodium in my oil might have been badly brewed biodiesel with sodium hydroxide residue still left in it. I quit running biodiesel at the time I recieved the bad oil report, so my next oil test should look better.
You answered your own question. Do go nuts here, run a few oil changes and test again. Regular green antifreeze works well and has a 45,000 mile service interval.
__________________
Regards,
Paul - Pocono Mtns. USA '90 E350 7.3L Ex-Ambulance High Top 400K Miles, No Turbo, Stock Stock stock, 10 oz. Bars Stop Leak and No ELC!
I've been using Fleetguard (Cummins) Compleat EG (ethylene glycol) ELC for at least 10 years now and have 239,000 miles with no complaints. It's mixed 50/50 with distilled water. I've only added about 8 ounces of the Fleetguard extender once in all that time and miles.
Quote:
some metals that might indicate "bearing overlay" (wish I knew what that meant).
Rod, main, and cam bearings are layered with a number of different metals called overlays. That's what they're referring to.
Quote:
can I safely switch over to a propylene glycol product like Evans waterless coolant?
I could be wrong, but seems like the other day a frequent poster here posted a bulletin direct from FoMoCo stating NOT to use propylene glycol in pre 2002 7.3/6.9 engines. Maybe whoever it was will see this and repost.
__________________ http://photos.thedieselstop.com/show...0/ppuser/28329
93 F250 7.3 IDI S/C XLT 4X4 E40D 3.55LS, Captains chairs, Tutone Mocha, Leer 48" Hiboy cap, FR & RR hitches, full DeeZee running boards. Factory ordered/delivered Jan 93 has 160K+, it's basically a stock truck with all the Ford options, just no disc player.
Toys: 26'Jayco FK TT, 18'Sylvan Pro Fish.
Hate to disagree with the article, but I absolutely do. The stated color combinations are not correct and use of ELC (extended life coolant) can be defined as different things to different companies.
Regular automotive coolant (typically fluorescent green) like Prestone should be avoided. There is too high of a silicate content. You should be using low or no silicate formulas.
The real question is, what is the coolant using to prevent cavitation. There is the older style coolant that uses SCA (system coolant additive, some say silicon coolant additive). The coolant industry prominently uses two types. The DCA4 style referred to as SCA. Or the new style referred to as OAT (organic acid technology).
The older type seals in older trucks (pre-2000 or 2001) will have an issue with the acidity of the OAT style coolants. We generally will refrain from using the OAT style coolants in any truck that is not already using it. Even if the water pump and gasket has been changed out, there are other seals that might be affected. GENERALLY these coolants are yellow/orange/red in color. However, it is easy enough to read the back of the bottle and determine what coolant you are purchasing. Or, you can request or search for a MSDS (material safety data sheet) on the particular product you are considering. This will detail exactly what is in it.
Old style commercial coolant is a low silicate formula that you add SCA from 1% to 2.5% per volume for cavitation protection. GENERALLY these coolants are green, but not the fluorescent green like automotive Prestone, a darker more opaque green. However, I've seen them in blue, purple, and yellow as well. Again, read the container, it isn't difficult, or search for the MSDS for the product.
ELC (extended life coolant) is a description that companies use to market their product. ELC can mean that the coolant is OAT style and does not need SCA added, or it can mean that a heavy concentration of SCA is used, thereby lasting longer than a normal concentration and extending the need to add SCA to a longer time period. The solution to determine which is what is reading the back of the bottle or finding an MSDS on the product. ELC DOES NOT mean that it is OAT style.
The Ethylene or Propylene discussion is totally separate from anti-cavitation additives or ELC designation. Ethylene is not as environmentally friendly as Propylene and requires some companies in some states to treat it as a hazardous chemical. This has caused an industry shift to use Propylene. However, Propylene does not have the freeze point range that Ethylene enjoys and almost all older Power Strokes are designated to use the Ethylene Glycol.
If you want to take the, "I'm a horse, lead me to the water" approach...
Find a company that carries Fleetguard product and have them order you some CC-2820. This is a no silicate Ethylene Glycol that has a high concentration of SCA already mixed in (2.5%) and is a concentrate, so you will need to mix one gallon to a gallon of water.
Hopefully this helps...
__________________
Thanks for reading, Dale Pics 1995 F350 - To much stuff to list,
more money spent than I want to admit.
I agree 100%, Dale I. There's ELC and then there's ELC. Actually the Fleetguard CC2820 is what I've been using, but now Fleetguard calls it ES Compleat EG if I understand their website correctly, good stuff, last month I just ordered another jug (ES Compleat EG) to keep in stock since I used the last of my CC2820.
If you want to take the, "I'm a horse, lead me to the water" approach...
Find a company that carries Fleetguard product and have them order you some CC-2820. This is a no silicate Ethylene Glycol that has a high concentration of SCA already mixed in (2.5%) and is a concentrate, so you will need to mix one gallon to a gallon of water.
Hopefully this helps...
This is a good coolant but it is not silicate free. It is a low silicate coolant.
__________________
2000 F250 Lariat CC SB 4x4 PSD Auto
Great article, thanks. Very informative, but Dales post shows why I wanted to consult you experts here. Sometimes even experts can be wrong (article author, not Dale).
This is a very confusing subject. I just changed out the af in my '93 7.3L IDI and used Fleet Charge that I got at Tractor Supply. It is low silicate and uses the Penray Pencool SCA. It is orange in color and is EC. So is this OK for my engine or do I have to drain it out tonite? I was told in another thread on this subject that the TS stuff was good for IDIs but now I am not so sure.
I am thinking the color of the AF is the most confusing thing - there doesn't seem to be any "absolute" where color A means this and color B means that. I am pretty sure the Pencool is not OAT but my AF is orange.
__________________ 1991 F150 SC 4.9L ZF5 1991 SAE Bronco 5.0L E4OD 1993 F250 4x4 7.3L IDI NA E4OD
This is a very confusing subject. I just changed out the af in my '93 7.3L IDI and used Fleet Charge that I got at Tractor Supply. It is low silicate and uses the Penray Pencool SCA. It is orange in color and is EC. So is this OK for my engine or do I have to drain it out tonite? I was told in another thread on this subject that the TS stuff was good for IDIs but now I am not so sure.
I am thinking the color of the AF is the most confusing thing - there doesn't seem to be any "absolute" where color A means this and color B means that. I am pretty sure the Pencool is not OAT but my AF is orange.
If you purchased Peak Fleet Charge, You made a good choice. That is a low silicate fully formulated high quality conventional coolant. The official color is pink. It is formulated with a Pencool SCA that is the same as DCA2. OAT has nothing to do with the type of SCA. Most OAT coolants use DCA4.
__________________
2000 F250 Lariat CC SB 4x4 PSD Auto
Hi guys...I wanted to ask a related question about the additive...does anyone use the Napa Kool? I thought that I'd read on here that Napa carried the Fleetguard additive, but my local store had it's own brand. A friend who has had diesels for long time said it's ok to use, but I am reluctant and so am coming back here for more advice. You guys are the best and I know you won't steer me wrong...Thanks a bunch...Meri
GET THE ORANGE STUFF OUT! For those who haven't been paying attention, GM finally entered a tentitive settlement late in 2007 in the class action suits for all of the DAMAGE caused by that stuff and their insistance that it be used . It amazes me that it's still on the shelves.
If you want to solve your coolant and water problems for good, check out evans waterless coolant no water, = no rust, no corrosion, no sca's needed, 375 deg NON pressurized boiling point ( no boiling = no hot spots= no blown head gaskets or warped heads= no damage )
It's expensive as all get out to buy, but it's really cheap insurance
__________________
'92 F-350 7.3 5 spd, Crew Cab dually,ATS turbo, 4" Exhaust, Air seat, Western Hauler bed. My Gallery
am gonna change mine to fleet charge from tractor supply,,,jhus need to know what to buy, like how many gallons do these 7.3 engines use
__________________
91 f250 4x4,, e rated tires,,cab lights,,,straitpiped to rear,,,,brand spankin new cd player,,,flatbed with gooseneck,,,one hellava bale hauler,,,
international 856 wide front and super h wide front ,, both have three points for haulin those bales.
63 w200 power wagon17 inch e rated tires,,six popper lil slow but she'll go anywhere
Linear Mode
