89 7.3 performance - Diesel Forum

raydav · 05-04-2005, 03:08 PM

Please forgive me if I am starting a new thread on an old subject. I did do a search of precious threads. I am new to the forum and new to diesel.

I have an 84 E350. It was 460/C6. In late 2003 I replaced the C6 with an E4OD using a Baumann controller. I just replaced the 460 with a 7.3 from an 89 van.

It starts very easy. Idles smooth. Runs OK. No visible smoke but some soot on the fender over the tail pipe that was not there with the 460. Mileage is better than the 460. Performance is down. The acceleration serge off the line is gone and torque seems down all across the band. But then I had my 460 running rather well so I don't know what to expect.

I have traded a carb and ignition for a fuel pump. I have been unable to find any info on the inner workings of that pump. Where can I get theory of operation, exploded drawing.....?

I have been searching for turbo info. If a turbo does not have a waste gate how is boost controlled?

If I add a turbo I would rather not mount it on the top rear of the engine. I am considering putting it at the junction of the two current exhaust pipes from the heads. It would get it closer to the heat source and not put all that extra heat on the dog house. The only down side to this I have found is that I might have to add a stand alone oil system for the turbo because turbo oil could not drain back to the engine. But that should be a benefit anyway.

Therefore I am looking for a turbo that can have the exhaust inlet and outlet both connected to tubing. That configuration seems rather common using V clamps.

perryg114 · 05-04-2005, 04:15 PM

Well the 460 probably puts out twice the HP and torque of an IDI. A turbo should help things quite a bit. I think the non-wastegated turbos are sized so they can only provide so much boost. I believe the waste gated turbos are bigger so they provide more boost down low and at higher Throttle settings they throw away what they don't need. I have to agree with not liking the position of the turbos on top of the engine. There must be a reason for it since that's where they always get put. Let us know if you find a way to mount a turbo down low.

Perry

OkieGringo · 05-04-2005, 04:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well the 460 probably puts out twice the HP and torque of an IDI. A turbo should help things quite a bit. <font color="red">I think the non-wastegated turbos are sized so they can only provide so much boost. I believe the waste gated turbos are bigger so they provide more boost down low and at higher Throttle settings they throw away what they don't need.</font> I have to agree with not liking the position of the turbos on top of the engine. There must be a reason for it since that's where they always get put. Let us know if you find a way to mount a turbo down low.

Perry

[/ QUOTE ]

OOpps, you've got it bassackward, the older non-wastegated turbos are BIGGER, and they were waste-gated and downsized because drivers/owners didn't USE A PYRO and were MELTING PISTONS, and Banks and ATS didn't like paying for NEW ENGINES [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]!!! Are we listening out there? No, I don't have STOCK in the pyro company. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]Baja

perryg114 · 05-04-2005, 04:55 PM

So the newer wastegated turbos spool up better at low RPM's because they are smaller?

Perry

OkieGringo · 05-04-2005, 06:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So the newer wastegated turbos spool up better at low RPM's because they are smaller?

Perry

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I don't know for a fact that they 'spool up' faster because they're smaller, but it could very well have something to do with mass dynamics [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]. And from what I've read the wastegate dumps off some of the exhaust speed at higher engine rpm to prevent the turbo from providing tooooo much extra oxyen/air and burning up/melting pistons. BANKS and ATS tried to makle the turbos 'idiot proof' at the recommendation of their respective LAWYERS/bean counters because Ford did the "Not my problem!" side-step dance. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] Baja

jdkline · 05-04-2005, 07:10 PM

So you think a non wastegated is more able to burn down an engine than a wastegated version? Seems the no wastegated woulkd be easier on it since it only makes 0-2 psi of boost most of teh time and sort of limits out around 10-12 psi, whereas you can get a Banks Sidewinder of ATS wastegated up to 15+++. But Baja is right if you have a turbo or any performance mods and don't run a good pyro and boost gauge that give accurate readings and WATCH them like a hawk you will eventually damage and IDI from what I can understand.

OkieGringo · 05-04-2005, 09:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So you think a non wastegated is more able to burn down an engine than a wastegated version? Seems the no wastegated woulkd be easier on it since it only makes 0-2 psi of boost most of teh time and sort of limits out around 10-12 psi, whereas you can get a Banks Sidewinder or ATS wastegated up to 15+++. But Baja is right if you have a turbo or any performance mods and don't run a good pyro and boost gauge that give accurate readings and WATCH them like a hawk you will eventually damage and IDI from what I can understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've missed my point! I'm just passing on what I read here or on the internet somewhere. Banks and ATS wastegated the turbos to make them 'idiot proof' and so that you don't HAVE TO "WATCH them(gauges)like a hawk". Sure you could "get a Banks Sidewinder or ATS wastegated up to 15+++" and you'll melt down pistons, and Banks or ATS will give you the [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]"not my problem" speech. My old ATS may not give me more than 3-5 lbs of boost around town, but the engine don't need it. It revs out and pulls just dandy without it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]Baja

raydav · 05-06-2005, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well the 460 probably puts out twice the HP and torque of an IDI. A turbo should help things quite a bit.

I have to agree with not liking the position of the turbos on top of the engine. There must be a reason for it since that's where they always get put. Let us know if you find a way to mount a turbo down low.

Perry

[/ QUOTE ]

If an IDI is so under powered why did they make the engine and trans extra strong.

I am currently considering two small units, one mounted close to each stock exhaust manifold outlet. What are the options for boost control on such a setup?

Ray

aceohearts · 05-07-2005, 01:44 AM

Thought about mounting a turbo down low myself, but one problem I've thought of is oil flow. Not hard to pump the oil into the turbo, but you need it flow freely back to the engine. Therefore it should be mounted high enough for that....

Also you would have a longer air intake system and this would increase the turbo lag.

raydav · 05-08-2005, 09:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thought about mounting a turbo down low myself, but one problem I've thought of is oil flow. Not hard to pump the oil into the turbo, but you need it flow freely back to the engine. Therefore it should be mounted high enough for that....

Also you would have a longer air intake system and this would increase the turbo lag.

[/ QUOTE ]

The oil thing I mentioned in the original post. I was told by a turbo vendor that a scavenge pump it typicaly used. But I figure if I have to have an oil pump I might as well got the next step and setup an independent turbo oil ststem.

The air intake thing is all relative. Idealley, you want zero pressure drop between ambient and turbo. If the intake tube gets longer it just has to also get larger. And then there is the filter. If you have zero pressure drop across a filter, it probably is not performing a filter function, unless it has a very large cross section area.

Anyone have any experience with pop-off valves instead of waste gates. I understand the tuners use them and have whistles in them.