E 350, new to diesel, new to mechanics, could use advice

[beer, please]

Have a 1991 E-350 that I just won in an auction. Took it to a mechanic, he found a few things wrong, but also said he had a hard time getting it to start, which hadn't been a problem for me (although it had gotten a lot colder after I left it with him) and he attributed it to air getting into the fuel line.

After I got it back I have had to crank it about 5 or 6 times in the morning to get it to start, I'm guessing because of the cold. After difficult starting first thing in the morning it has fired up instantly on the first crank for the rest of the day, except twice. Once when the temp had gotten down to near freezing and I tried to start it at midnight, the next time after I had been driving it for 30 minutes, then parked it in my driveway for an hour and tried to restart it. All this cranking has been a drain on my battery and I had to jump start my van the latter time it wouldn't start.

I took the alternator in to make sure it was working and it tested fine. Took two glow plugs out and took them in, they looked fine (although the ends of the harness were very brittle and broke off on one.)

So what is going on? If it's just air in the line like the mechanic thought, I wasn't having that problem before I took the van to him or before the temp dropped, so why now?

To add another dimension to all of this, sometimes when I first fire it up in the morning it starts right away, runs rough for about 10 seconds and dies, then I have to go through the process of cranking it 5 times or more, further draining the battery.

Also, as mentioned above, one of the GP connectors snapped off on the GP, how do I fix that? Can I just splice that?

If none of this made sense, I'm sorry. I just learned what an alternator looked like this morning 20 minutes before I pulled it out of my van. I've got little experience in mechanics.

[Snotzalot]

Your symptoms indicate need to replace all of the glow plugs and you need to replace the return lines, caps and o'rings on the injectors.

Use Beru/Motorcraft ZD9 glow plugs and no others! I repeat no others! Don't let anyone suggest otherwise!!!

Order your return line "kit" from Diesel Injection in Texas, the kit is $30 bucks or so. While it's apart replace your air filter and fuel filter. Also while it's apart you should also consider replacing the "FIPL " fuel injection position lever switch aka "TPS" the throttle position switch. (Guys as a van owner I suggest replacing the TPS/FIPL during this service since it's a van and you have to R&R a lot of stuff to do the lines you might as well do the whole job, ie. you save on the labor of the individual jobs)

The plastic sleeves on the wire terminals of the glow plug wires don't need to be replaced but many folks use heat shrink electrical tubing to seal things up.

These are common normal maintenance items needed for a vehicle of this age. Since you are new to mechanics, find someone who can do this for you while you watch or take it and your credit card with a big limit to a service shop that works on diesels. (Not necessarily a Ford dealer)

You will need to remove the engine cover for access, to make life easier remove the passengers seat (unbolt it from the floor) and slide it to the rear, the engine cover can now be easily removed.

Enjoy your new truck!

Pete this fellow might not understand a proper starting procedure, could you please post your suggested starting procedure?

[beer, please]

Snotz, thanks for taking the time and posting some advice. I got the engine cover out earlier today when I was looking for the glow plugs, so I already battled my way over the passenger seat, was fun!

In regards to the wire terminal, I can just hook the wire straight to the top of the GP and wrap it in heat shrink electrical tubing?

Any advice on how to get to the GPs that are closer to the radiator? The fuel lines going into the cylinders (are these the injectors?) cover the GP up pretty well.

I haven't been able to find a shop manual specific to the 1991 E-350 Diesel, know of anyone that carries one?

I'm probably going to have a million questions the more I stick with this, so please bare with me. Thanks again!

[cdnsarguy]

Welcome to TDS..... I would suggest you read info available at........


Ford diesel 6.9 7.3 IDI


Focus on air in the system........ and glow plug problems.

As for the GP connector if it is broken off the wire, that will require a repair. The heat shrink is if the plastic only came off and the connector was still attached. We advise using the correct sized blue crimp on end available at most AP stores. Just do not shorten the wire as it cause the resistance to change.

Fully Ins. Female Bullet | All Electronics Corp - Parts, Supplies and Components

Pete

[beer, please]

Thanks, Pete!

I read the Ford Diesel 6.9 7.3 IDI page you posted, some of it made sense, the rest of it just gave me more things to research. Very appreciated.

And the whole plastic end did snap off the GP wire, so thanks for the telling me about the crimp on end.

Going to go get some coffee and get to work on it again, which means a lot of head scratching.

[Snotzalot]

To R&R the glow plugs use a 10mm deep socket 1/4" drive with a universal joint. You can get all of the GP's out you might have to move slightly the fuel lines, but since you will be replacing the return lines, caps and O'rings they can easily be moved. There are small brackets/retainers that hold several of the fuel injection steel lines together, remove them to move the lines around, but make sure you replace them, you can't run for long with out the retainers.

Do not use anit-sieze on the GP's and don't over tighten.

[beer, please]

When I replace the GP connector, do I need to expose the wire before sticking it into the connector?

[kipamore]

I think that it's advisable to R&R your glow plugs, but that's not where your starting problem is coming.

What you describe mimicks the problems I had with air in the lines. What happens is if the engine sits for a while, hot or cold, the fuel drains back into the tank, and the IP (injection pump) essentially loses it's prime. After enough cranking, you can get it reprimed but it can be a real pain, and if it gets bad enough you won't be able to prime it and will burn out your starter trying. The telltale is your "starts, then dies" complaint, which can't be anything else but fuel starvation.

What I did, and I highly recommend it, is to replace at least some of the fuel line going to the IP with clear line, so you can see what's happening. The stuff they sell at Home Depot will work, but it will get brittle and crack when cold and I'm told UV light degrades it. The stuff I used was called Superthane and I found it on ebay for cheap. The little section of line between the fuel filter and the inlet to the IP on the top would be ideal to have clear. Also doubles as a fuel pump confirmation point.

Kip on truckin'

[beer, please]

would just sitting over night being long enough for the fuel to drain back into the tank? when i first got this thing it started every morning without fail. then it was at the mechanics for 2 1/2 weeks (holidays) and when i got it back i had to go through the battle every morning.
i'll for sure look into the clear lines! thank you!

[Snotzalot]

While you have it apart for the glow plugs, replace the return lines! It's a van and while you have it apart do what needs to be done. Return lines are a preventative maintenance item, just do it!

[beer, please]

Sir. Snotz, I promise I'll do the return lines, but I already got the plugs back in and got the old beast running for the first time in 4 days.

Now I have a new question. In the last two days I have removed and tested the alternator, located the glow plugs and removed three of them just to see how they looked, unscrewed one of the fuel injector lines because I didn't know what it was and wanted to see what would happen (certainly not the best way to approach mechanics,) tried to jump my van after getting the glow plugs back in, finally got the battery charged at O'Rielly's, and then it fired right up. No multiple cranks, no start and stall, no seeming drop in power, just fired right up and ran until I shut her down.

If air in the fuel line is the cause of the stalls, and it sat for four days why did it fire up so easily? Could it be because I tried to crank it 5 or so times while I had jumper cables hooked up (before I went to O'Rielly's) and purged the air?

This is the first nice day (above 50 and sunny) I've been able to fire it up, so weather is seeming like the biggest culprit right now.

As always, I need the advice so keep it coming! Thanks in advance, I'm really glad I found you people!

[kipamore]

From my limited experience, yeah weather makes a difference. My engine takes some cranking if it's under 35, and takes a lot more cranking if it's under 10.

What is probably happening is as the fuel drains back into the tank, it forms an air pocket in the lines. The IP is still primed, or at least it's mostly primed. But when that air pocket gets to the IP, it stalls. That's exactly what was happening with mine.

If you dig into the archives, you'll find that a very common mod for these engines is to go with an electric fuel pump (often called a lift pump or a transfer pump). My mechanical failed 300 miles from home and that one cost me over $800, including tow, hotel, etc. Mine was sucking air, causing the above mentioned shenanigans.

[88beast]

i have the same start issue itll fire give you 10 sec and die thats whats in the filter and pump
then the rest of the fuel is down the like a while
the system works on pressure to keep fuel in place basicly
if you put a hole in a like all the puel when running will spurt out and air will get in so o rings
inspect lines and the ip well check the whole engine for any fuel on it
then after all the orings are replaced (start with the filter cause if it will start its probaly before or after the filter (those 2 lines on it)
im letting it get warmer to fix mine but heres my start cycle
cycle gps 2 or 3 times
start and let it run for its 10 seconds
then cycle gps again till i see fit (depends on how much of a rush im in)
then finally crank twice once till temp gauge gets to normal opp
next till it gets way hott
then when way hot it will start right up

[Snotzalot]

After sitting for a few days you start because you do have some fuel in the injection pump but since you have a leak in the return lines the fuel supply to the IP has drained and you run out of fuel once the engine has started. Cranking will supply fuel to the IP eventually.

You need to replace the return lines, this is normal preventative maintenance.

[Snotzalot]

Originally Posted by 88beast

heres my start cycle
cycle gps 2 or 3 times
start and let it run for its 10 seconds
then cycle gps again till i see fit (depends on how much of a rush im in)
then finally crank twice once till temp gauge gets to normal opp
next till it gets way hott
then when way hot it will start right up

A properly set up engine, i.e. good GP's, good return lines, good starter and battery usually requires one glow to fire up down to 10 degs F or so. Once it fires up there is no need to cycles the GP's again.