E4OD cooler line broke, now shutters and slips - Diesel Forum

MikeInCA · 11-01-2006, 05:08 PM

Hi all,

I am looking at buying a 1991 f250 7.3 N/A, 2WD, E4OD, apparently 150k. It sounds like the transmission has been damaged. The line to the cooler broke and now the tranny shutters and wants to slip particularly going up hill. The owner told me it was taken to a tranny shop, they dropped the pan, found "normal" amount of metal, drove it around, and didn't see a problem. Now the owner thinks the fluid level is too high, but I haven't checked it yet. I'm not sure if it was slipping right after the fluid dump or if it started later. I know it has been driven around for a while, sounds like months, but it is parked now. I will, however, be able to test drive.

I am going to see it tomorrow and wanted to get a heads up on stuff to look at regarding the transmission. My truck has a C6 and that is all I am used to although I have read many threads here to get up to speed. I was considering buying it as a parts truck, pulling many body and interior parts that I need, and then selling off the 7.3, etc. If the E4OD isn't really destroyed, then I might buy it and keep it intact. I don't really think the truck warrants buying it to install a new transmission.

I would appreciate if anyone can give me the most likely scenarios of what has been damaged and if DOA is most likely. It is located too far from my home and tools to give it a good once over before I would buy. It seems strange to me that the shop wouldn't have tried to sell a rebuilt tranny right then and there if any problems were apparent.

Thanks for your input,

Mike

cdnsarguy · 11-01-2006, 06:13 PM

To check fluid level ensure it's on flat ground, the dipstick will tell you cold and hot levels..... If it's too high in fluid the trans will foam up and may slip...... Make sure the tach and speedo are working flawlessly.

MikeInCA · 11-01-2006, 09:00 PM

Thanks cdnsarguy. I will check those things. BTW, I have read many of your previous posts, and they have been very helpful.

Mr_Roboto · 11-01-2006, 09:11 PM

In my experience, once a trans has been overfilled and the fluid has foamed, the fluid is ruined and must be drained and replaced. The air just never comes all the way out of the fluid and aerated hydraulic fluid just doesn't work right.

A complete diesel E4OD is worth a couple hundred bucks at least, just as a core. This is because the diesel case is unique to 7.3L diesel (IDI and PS) applications.

I personally would drain the trans and converter and refill. I prefer Type F fluid, it is heavier and does not have friction modifiers which are used to soften shifts.

cdnsarguy · 11-01-2006, 09:36 PM

I was always told type F had abrasives to help in shifting in the older trans C3/4 etc.....

Here is the recomended fluid by Ford, however Ford has just announced they will not handle plain Mercon anymore only Mercon V.

http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/949.../01-15-07.php3

MikeInCA · 11-01-2006, 09:45 PM

Thanks for the info, Mr_Roboto. I haven't heard of using Type F instead of Mercon before. That is interesting. I will be draining the trans if I buy it. I ran across a post yesterday which was a lengthy description of exactly what to do. I also didn't realize that there was value to the core. I will have a much better idea after I see the truck tomorrow, but I wanted to get the right thoughts in my head before then.

On a little different topic, I read something yesterday that maybe one of you guys posted about using the AT cooler in the bottom of the radiator instead of the add-on AT cooler. My truck uses both the radiator and the extra cooler hooked up in series. It seems like a good idea, but no one was mentioning it so is it a bad idea for some reason? It has always been that way since I've owned it. I did replace the main radiator a couple years ago, and I just hooked it back up the way it was with both in series.

josierose · 11-02-2006, 01:36 AM

Mike,

Don't mean to just jump in here but, you should ALWAYS use the AT cooler in the radiator. Using both is a good idea. Some guys make the mistake of just using the additional one. They will regret it eventually. Especially if they tow anything. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]

MikeInCA · 11-02-2006, 01:53 AM

Thanks Blacksmoke. I was beginning to wonder with what I was reading.

merdock69 · 11-02-2006, 09:10 AM

Remember that those pesky E4OD's are computer controlled and line pressure, shift times, and torque converter lockup are dictated by the the signals the computer receives from the engine RPM sensor, throttle position (FIPL) sensor, vehicles speed sensor, and Shift lever sensor. So, even slipping can be caused by a bad sensor as the computer (especially when going up hill) can be confused by any one of these sensors (often times tach or throttle) in to unlucking the torque converter making it feel like it is slipping. The tach sensor was the problem on mine, and it didn't thow but one code on it, and there is no way I know of to accurately test them. I just replaced it and it solved the exact issue you're having. I also replaced my solenoid pack as the line pressure control solenoid was causing low line pressure, so I replaced it with a mechanical pressure control orifice that provided more consistent and "idiot computer" proof line pressure to keep from burning up my tc lockup clutch.

Mr_Roboto · 11-02-2006, 09:22 AM

Re: the different trans fluids:

Back in the old days we had 2 transmission fluids. Type F was a plain oil, Type A / Suffix A had friction modifiers (whale oil) added. What a friction modifier does is soften the shift by making the clutch slip a little more until hydraulic pressure builds enough to hold the clutch.

Fast forward to the 80's and the quest for better fuel economy. One of the ways to reduce losses is to make the oil thinner. Hence GM's Dexron and Ford's Mercon specs, which were thinner oils, and also both contained friction modifiers (synthetic, because of the lack of whales to kill) for softer shifts.

As far as I can tell, the "grit" in any trans fluid is nothing more than urban legend.

MikeInCA · 11-02-2006, 04:38 PM

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I passed on this truck. The trans problem was beyond too much fluid. Shuttered right from the start and wouldn't engage into second. Tach and speed seemed fine. No apparent cold level mark on the dip, and I wasn't going to drive it around long enough to warm it up. Checked level after short drive and still an inch or so below the hashes but not warmed up. Something must have changed since it was in the shop. I'm sure they would have liked the work. Good advice for the next time though.

I was going to get the truck for the parts, but it turned out not to be the lariat as described so it didn't have all the stuff I was hoping for. Without the parts that would be useful for my current truck, it wasn't worth it to take a chance on the trans.

Back to working on my truck. My new VRV should arrive tomorrow. Definately buy those through International and not Ford. $39 instead of $139. What does Ford do, look at the International price and add a hundred?