Engine dies with clutch push

[tjoneill]

Anyone see this before?
Engine starts normally, clutch switch ops normal.
Engage gear, drive down road fine.
First clutch push to shift, engine dies.
Starts right back up.
Replaced clutch switch (and bypassed) no joy.
Seems to be related to whatever processes the clutch switch signal getting messed up on the second push?
I did replace the aft fuel tank and everything seems fine there.
Thanks in advance for any help.

Tim O'Neill
Verona, MO

[M.L.S.C.]

So it's dying when you push the clutch pedal in, or when you release it to let the clutch engage?

[tjoneill]

Definitely as you push the clutch in, sometimes if you push slowly it doesn't die, but about 90% of the time it does. It seems to be an electrical signal similar to the ignition switch going to off.

[cdnsarguy]

How old is the IP, have you encountered any water in the fuel....... Have you checked for power to the IP FSS....12v is what is supposed to get there.

There is a TSB for stalling when clutch is pushed due to rust/water/grung in the IP. If you want a copy PM me your email addy.

[BuilderBob]

Wow,
Good mystery!
How did/does the cruise control work?
Do the brake lights work?
I recall that to kick out the CC, it gets a signal from the clutch or the brake light.

I would wire a light bulb off the 12vdc to the Fuel solenoid.

[tjoneill]

Thanks for the comments!

The injector pump is a fairly low time overhaul unit, the fuel filter is probably due replacement but is only a year old and the truck has been used sparingly on the ranch for the past year mostly due to the astronomical price of fuel (in the summer I paid over 4.85 a gallon).

The truck has no cruise control. Brake lights are good.

Anyone have a wiring diagram for this? I have the shop manual but it refers to another electrical manual. The diagram I have shows the clutch switch to have two separate single-pole switch functions; one is to contact when the clutch is about 1 inch away from full travel (the start safety function) which is also described in the troubleshooting section. The diagram doesn't really describe the second switch function or show the downstream connections for the two switches.

[BuilderBob]

Step back, & go with an expert's recommedations. Pete is the guy, see above

There is a TSB for stalling when clutch is pushed due to rust/water/grung in the IP. If you want a copy PM me your email addy.

I see no reson that the grung in the I/P and the clutch has any correlation, but maybe Pete can explain.

I do have a schematic, but no way to send it to you, not a PDF file.
Yes the clutch has 2 switches, one for the clutch safety, one for the C. Control.

Back to a light in the I/P fuel solenoid, fuse it to protect.
Is there any reason to believe the clutch pedal assembly is tugging on a wire bundle?

How long has it been since this truck worked w/o this problem?

[cdnsarguy]

the fuel filter is probably due replacement but is only a year old

Might be a year old but how often did you drain any possible water from it.... during run time. If you wait for the water in fuel light... it comes on when there is a significant amount........ Significant amount.... .01 of a qt/liter. Small amounts can get into the IP, with sitting for a period of time..... rust may/will occur.

Clutch pedal switch is for ignition power to starter only........ your not confusing the auto switch jumper as another switch are you. Does your book give a schematic or page number for the required diagram.

Cruise control "when installed" receives a signal and shuts off when the clutch is depressed.. may be what you discussing.

[tjoneill]

Gotta' love a Canadian BOOB man--I work with a bunch in Winnipeg--cheers!

Yeah-I've probably been remiss 'bout draining the fuel filter but it fires right up up--it's definitely something with pushing the dang clutch in after the first gear engagement. I will change the filter as it's due anyway.

Could be a bare wire somewhere, the mice chewed up the vaccum lines in the heater system last summer and I still have this scheduled to repair but it seems odd that it would work with the first gear engagement and then die with the next clutch push.

The problem became apparent after I recently removed the aft fuel tank as it was leaking due to corrosion. Don't use a power wire brush to remove the mastic Ford uses to attach the stone guard plate to the tank--it makes a big mess.

After removing the tank, I used the tried and true Red Green solution and duct taped the fuel lines and other connections together for the three day period it was without aft tank. It was during this three day interval the problem became evident. I thought maybe the fuel system was somehow sucking air although there was about half a roll of tape securing the open ends. As luck would have it, the local O'Reilly had a (made in Canada no less) tank in stock, which we installed last weekend only to find the problem still existing with the clutch. Engine seems to run fine off the new rear tank as long as you leave the clutch alone.

The clutch switch wiring harness has four wires and four connection pins on the switch, two of which are the starter lockout--I'm not sure what the other two do but I'm beginning to suspect a computer problem as opposed to a mechanical issue given the wierd nature of the problem. I will try the light on the fuel solenoid to see what is happening there.

Thanks again for the interest and comments.

[hesutton]

Will it die when just reving the motor and letting it drop back to idle, tranny in neutral? Is is dying with decelleration of RPM or is it the ONLY with the clutch?

Heath

[tjoneill]

It's all good until you push the clutch the second time after you start and go.

[cdnsarguy]

I'm begining to think ignition switch..... has it been replaced since you have owned it.

The clutch pedal only comes into play in the start position... If and this is a supposition the ignition switch lock assy was installed one tooth out could/would the key position be between the start and run position of the ignition switch.

Try using a jumper from battery positive direct to the FSS on the IP... start the truck and see if it runs fine. You will have to remove the jumper to stop the engine.

[tjoneill]

Update on the wierdness-

Turns out it's not so wierd after all--got back home and was able to troubleshoot by wiring directly to the injector pump fuel shutoff solenoid and it still dies. Noticed that the main factor appears to be getting above 1500 RPM and then rapidly letting the RPM decay, it evidently undershoots the low idle speed stop and dies. Starts right back up and runs fine, but if you allow the RPM to drop quickly from 1500 it dies.

The guys at the IP overhaul shop say metering valve in IP problem, probably due to water or corrosion. The pump is fairly fresh but I do have to admit I haven't been as vigilant on draining the water. Anyone have any experience with this? Can it be replaced on the truck or should you pull the pump? I would like to turn up the wick too as it seems to be a bit weak.

I'm wondering if this has something to do with this new ultra low sulfur fuel (and the fact that my wife absolutely refuses to put the Howe's treatment in when she fuels the truck)?

Interesting insight into the price of diesel fuel--Believe it or not, I was at an aviation conference a month ago where jet fuel was discussed and the guy from a pretty reputable source was talking about how much diesel fuel is EXPORTED! Kinda flies in the face of the drill here and now mantra. Seems the US exports a lot of diesel, which impacts the domestic supply and hence the price. Not that I begrudge the refiners making an extra buck, but if they're getting tax breaks and incentives to pick my pocket now that may be a scandal. The exports also impact domestic jet fuel supplies as the portion of the oil barrel that could go toward increased production of Jet A kerosene gets "poached" for more export diesel fuel and voila--artificially low supply and high prices! But I digress--

It got cold here in SW Mo, not by Manitoba standards but 4F is still pretty cold.

Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!

[hesutton]

The guys at the IP overhaul shop say metering valve in IP problem,

That's what I was getting at with my earlier post.........as it sounded like a metering valve issue to me as I could not see how the clutch and the safety switch could cause the truck to die.

You wife had better use the Howes or whatever fuel treatment you like. The process used to remove sulfer from the fuel also removes much of the lubricating properties of the diesel. Your IP and injectors are lubed by the fuel. No lube means shorter life span for those parts. You can sometimes get the IP to limp along a while longer and improve the metering valve symptoms with a doulbe dose of lube in the fuel.

DO NOT TURN UP THE FUEL UNTIL YOU GET A PYROMETER!

Glad you found the issue.

Heath

[LMJD]

The guys at the IP overhaul shop say metering valve in IP problem, probably due to water or corrosion. The pump is fairly fresh but I do have to admit I haven't been as vigilant on draining the water. Anyone have any experience with this?

By your symptoms I bet the shop is right on the money. When the spool valve and it's bore are scored, a lube additive isn't going to help, it can't smooth out the rough mating surfaces. The IP shop will replace the metering valve and hone it's bore smooth.

As far as additives, if you check with any name brand fuel bulk plant, they'll tell you the refineries have been adding a lubricity additive since way back in '92-'93 when they first lowered the sulphur content and they still do so to this day.