OK here's the deal, I have had to replace a couple gp's over the past year I used Beru's, which is what was in it. Now in anticipation of the cooler weather I decided to check them again as I have had a bit of hard starting.
Found 2 bad. 1 electrode element broke off in the head. The whole thing came out of the threaded part. After a bit of an ordeal and with guidance from some postings here I got it out OK.
Now (and the 2 times before when all 8 gp's were good) I have what seems to be a weird symptom. With a cold engine (70deg outside) KOEO the WTS start light stays on for 8-9 secs, the WTS light goes out, but the volt meter stays low and does not pulse. It starts fine and the volt meter stays low for another 8-10 secs then jumps up to norm.
Before I changed the GP's it would have WTS light 7-8 secs cold and then voltmeter would pulse as GP's "clicked" for another 10-15 secs. But it was hard to start, having to crank 5+secs, sometimes twice.
I have checked the GP relay and have zero voltage drop across relay when energized.
To recap, 1-2 bad GP's WTS on solid then pulses. 8 good GP's WTS light solid then off but GP"s still on solid no pulse at all.
I afraid that even though I have all Beru/Motorcraft ZD9' GP's I could burn them out and end up with more major problems getting the out to replace.
Does it sound like I have a bad GP controller?
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1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 217k miles. running W80 for fuel 95% of the time, 4000+mi as of 10/12
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
30+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009. If you want it done right, do it yourself
THe controller is probably not bad, the relay might be bad, they have a tendency to weld the contact inside of them and won't release. Replace the relay first.
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99.5 F350 XLT Lariat 4X4 4R100 4.10 DW CC LB Centurion conversion Garret Turbo, Radio SD &Tape, SP Performance 40-60-80 chip, 100 Gal.Transfer Flow W/Trimax Control Aux. fuel tank. ScanGaugeII, Boost, EGT, Trans. Temp. Oil Temp. Build date 03/99
92 F350 7.3 IDIT E4OD CC LB dually Banks turbo US Gear O/U
1990 F350 XLT Lariat 7.3L IDI E4OD Dually 280K+ 2WD
Reman Promar Long Block 11/07 Gave this one to my Grandson, only 7K miles on the engine.
Have AutoEnginuity W/Ford enhanced. Lima OH area.
My mind works lightening fast.
One Flash and it's gone forever.
I don't think it's the relay. I did a test today. I unplugged 1 GP and the controller again pulses the GP's after the WTS light goes out (was on for 7 secs), as it did before I replaced the 2 bad ones (1 was infinate ohms, the other was ~2 ohms, all the rest are 0.4 ohms).
So with all 8 good GP's connected on a cold engine it has WTS on for 9 secs, and another 8-9 secs of constant low voltage on meter and continuosly energized GP's after the light goes out and after the engine starts.
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1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 217k miles. running W80 for fuel 95% of the time, 4000+mi as of 10/12
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
30+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009. If you want it done right, do it yourself
The system determines the glow plug temperature by electronically measuring the resistance of the glow plugs. It then maintains this temperature regardless of ambient temperatures.
The system is actuated when the ignition switch is turned to the RUN position. The "WAIT TO START" indicator lights until the glow plugs reach the proper temperature. The indicator goes out and the engine can be started.
The afterglow operation of the glow plugs continues after the "WAIT TO START" indicator turns off. The glow plugs cycle on and off for a period of time. This helps to reduce white smoke after engine start-up.
The glow plug system can be recycled by turning the ignition off and on. This immediately restarts the glow plug cycle. The engine can be started as soon as the "WAIT TO START" indicator goes off.
It seems like constant voltage to the GP's after the WTS light goes out is NOT normal. It should if anything pulse during the afterglow cycle. Which is when the clicking of the relay is heard/seen on the volt meter.
Today's cold start had WTS light on for 9 secs, then GP's on steady another 8-9 secs after. I used a test light on a GP this time to time "on" cycle.
This seems to indicate a faulty controller does it not? If I unhook 1 GP it does cycle on/off during afterglow. Which would seem to indicate the relay is not sticking.
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1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 217k miles. running W80 for fuel 95% of the time, 4000+mi as of 10/12
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
30+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009. If you want it done right, do it yourself
The reason it has to cycle the glow plugs is that we don't have continuous duty glow plugs like the chevys do. Or, for that matter, like Mercedes did. (I'm not sure if they still even have glow plugs... VW TDIs don't from what I'm told.) The controller has to handle not burning out the plugs. All glow plugs of which I am aware increase in resistance as they heat up, but a continuous plug's resistance increases enough to prevent burnout. In order to undervolt the plugs it would need another relay and another resistor, which is just more stuff to go wrong.
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1992 F250 XLT 4x4 Super Cab 7.3 IDI E40D 3.55 ATS 088 4"R.C 360k
1982 MBZ 300SD W126 California model w/Sunroof, no EGR
DRINKYPOO Can I infer from your post that my conclusion was correct since you didn't say it was in error. Namely a defective controller?
How about this one from RA for $65 +s/h More Information for AIRTEX / WELLS 1R1211 6 more new ZD-9's are cheap too at $9.60ea.
Or maybe just go manual GP control for $0
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1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 217k miles. running W80 for fuel 95% of the time, 4000+mi as of 10/12
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
30+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009. If you want it done right, do it yourself
Here's an update on the situation. Since I'm on a limited budget and couldn't afford a set of 8 GP's I replace as they go bad. I replaced #2,#7 end of Nov. #4 went bad a week after that, so I just replaced it a couple days ago, and almost immediately #6 and #8 went out.
I am thinking that my screwy controller that seems to stay on too long, and has no after glow with all 8 being good is what has burned out the last few. So with now 6 new GP's I went ahead and wired up the manual GP switch using an old rear defroster switch that has push and hold on function. Disconnected the stock controller to relay wire completely, and hooked up the WTS light wire to the relay ground wire to the switch. Now all I have to do is figure out a time length for various temps to activate the GP's and I'm good to go.
How about 10-12secs at 32 deg? I wonder if I should hold GP's on while cranking, or for a few seconds after it starts to simulate normal operation?
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1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 217k miles. running W80 for fuel 95% of the time, 4000+mi as of 10/12
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
30+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009. If you want it done right, do it yourself
In my garage in the moring its 55 and i hold them on for 10-11 sec
when i leave work in the afternoon its about 35 and i hold them on 13 sec
Ive tried holding them on while cranking, it seems to slow the starter down too much. I usually cycle them on and off if it has trouble starting
I thought 2 ohms was a good reading for the glowplugs, all of mine read that number
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Work truck: 2008 F 550 6.4, 91 f800 5 speed 7.8L
personal: 92 f 250 xlt ext cab 7.3 idi 4x4 5 speed(converted to f 350)
Last edited by tanbuddy; 12-25-2012 at 08:32 AM.
Reason: glowplugs ohms
New Navistar glow plug harnesses are available on eBay, here's one from a seller who has quite a bit of 7.3l IDI stuff. With new ones going this cheap I wouldn't even bother poking around in an old harness. Figure up to a couple hours to install due to having to cut 1 or 2 wires and route the harness differently (this is my write-up from swapping a Navistar harness into my old F350 a year ago), and you'll end up with a better quality harness. Plus it's an excuse to check over the rest of the wiring under the good.
1990 Jeep Wrangler Sahara, 4.2l, 5-speed, Dana 30/35 w/3.07s (for now!), 33x10.5x15 BFG Mud-Terrain KM2s on 4" Rough Country springs. Engine being rebuilt after an awesome afternoon in the mud LOL
I've done a simple test on the harness by checking for voltage drop from output of GP relay ribbon to each GP and found no issues. I have replaced a couple GP connectors on the harness quite a awhile back, but the test was after that.
I think I might be good for now with the manual control, but will look at getting a new controller soon.
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1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 217k miles. running W80 for fuel 95% of the time, 4000+mi as of 10/12
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
30+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009. If you want it done right, do it yourself
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(for now!), 33x10.5x15 BFG Mud-Terrain KM2s on 4" Rough Country springs. Engine being rebuilt after an awesome afternoon in the mud LOL
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