grey smoke from tailpipes during and after cranking... hard start possible flooding..

[troubleddiesel]

Can't seem to figure out why my engine seems to be flooding.... Wants to fire, but turns over like its flooding... New ip and objectors.. could it be fss or css.. not sure.. have 12v at all terminals... Hmmmm... Should I advance my pump as far as it can go? It's already slightly retarded as per manufacturers specs... Any ideas?

[chuckster57]

Remove the objections!!!

Sorry couldn't resist, darn auto spell LOL!

After your last thread, it might be worth while to remove the INjectors, IP and take them back to the place of purchase for testing.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App

[troubleddiesel]

Lol! Gets me every time!

[jasonm11]

when all else fails go back and check the basics. a diesel needs compression, air and fuel.

remove the glow plugs and borrow a compression guage. check your compression. just because you "rebuilt it" does not mean you did it right. It is easy to break a ring and if not watching put the rings in upside down. Humor me and everyone else and check compression on all cylinders.
call a local injection pump rebuilder and find out what is needed to check IP pressures. if low they check your "holley pump" at the IP.

Let us know what you come up with.

[drinkypoo]

Originally Posted by jasonm11

when all else fails go back and check the basics. a diesel needs compression, air and fuel.

And heat! It needs heat. That's what the glow plugs for, to provide a hot spot in the cylinder for the time before the cylinder heats up. All the heat does NOT come from adiabatic compression.

[Xeonpony]

Originally Posted by drinkypoo

And heat! It needs heat. That's what the glow plugs for, to provide a hot spot in the cylinder for the time before the cylinder heats up. All the heat does NOT come from adiabatic compression.

If all is working as it should you don't need any more heat then the compression, I grew up around diesels in logging camps, most had the glow plug system long since stripped and tossed! during winter they'd throw a bucket of smoldering sawdust under the big ones for an hour or so.

Just takes a bit more to get em going with out the glow system. Older diesels didn't even have glow plugs they where pure auto ignition systems based of the heat of compression.

[drinkypoo]

Older diesels were hard to start

Some newer diesels don't have glow plugs either, but they also have direct injection

[Xeonpony]

Originally Posted by drinkypoo

Older diesels were hard to start

Some newer diesels don't have glow plugs either, but they also have direct injection

Now that there is no arguing!

[NH2112]

An IDI of any make requires glow plugs for cold starts on all but the hottest days. I'm talking Saudi Arabia hot, not Georgia hot. The fuel is injected into the precombustion chamber, which doesn't get hot enough on a cold start to ignite the fuel on compression alone. IDIs generally have compression ratios in the 20:1 to 23:1 range, which is necessary for cold starts even with the glow plugs. 18:1 pistons are available for the GM 6.5l and they're very hard to start below around 40F unless the block heater is used as well. Same goes for the 19:1 pistons available for the GM 6.2l.

On the other hand, direct injection diesels can run with much lower compression ratios - 16 or 17:1 is pretty common - because the fuel is injected directly into the hot swirl/turbulence chamber in the piston crown. Starting aids on these engines are meant for cold temps, generally down around 20F or lower. Some engines start easier in the cold than others, in my experience the Cummins B series is a bear to start down around 20F without use of a block heater while the Perkins 4.236/6.354 fires up much more easily at those temps. Back when I worked on forklifts & aerial lifts I used to spend half my work day during subzero weather just going around with a small propane tank & heat-shrink gun warming up our Cummins-powered boomlifts and construction forklifts so they'd start (we didn't have power outlets to plugs them into at the time.) The Perkins started without external heat down to maybe -10F, -20F if they had the flame manifold heater. If one wouldn't start on a jobsite I'd head out with the oxyacetylene torch, pull the rubber hose off the intake manifold, and just stick a rosebud tip in for a few minutes. Guaranteed cold start at any temp you'd ever see in NH as long as the fuel wasn't jelled, and if it was the torch could take care of that too.

[Xeonpony]

erf I should find a nice old CAT engin and shove it in the truck! I still groan every time I see that weird thing they call an Ip! I want the 1 pump for each cylinder with direct take off. The Kabota system is interesting too but I like modular.

[NH2112]

Lister & Deutz diesels are like that, too, and it does make for a pretty simple setup. Then you have the Detroits and others with common fuel manifold & unit injectors. But the Navistar & GM IDI is a pretty simple setup that's very easy and inexpensive to work on. Navistar's setup is superior, IMO, because the injectors & glow plugs are at the top of the heads. This means you don't have to pull the intake manifold and injector pump & lines to get the valve covers off. That little bit of wisdom from Detroit, along with the chain timing set and too-light-duty construction, always has me .

[drinkypoo]

Originally Posted by Xeonpony

erf I should find a nice old CAT engin and shove it in the truck! I still groan every time I see that weird thing they call an Ip! I want the 1 pump for each cylinder with direct take off. The Kabota system is interesting too but I like modular.

One of the many benefits of a cummins swap is that it has a bosch injection pump with one pump per cylinder... same as my Mercedes

[LMJD]

If all is working as it should you don't need any more heat then the compression, I grew up around diesels in logging camps, most had the glow plug system long since stripped and tossed! during winter they'd throw a bucket of smoldering sawdust under the big ones for an hour or so.

That doesn't mean much. Every brand of diesel is vastly different when it comes to cold starting. The old Cummins, especially with a compression release, would start no matter what. We maintained a fleet of Case front end loaders and they absolutely would not start with a warm engine on a 105 degree day without hitting the glow plug first.

[jasonm11]

Originally Posted by drinkypoo

And heat! It needs heat. That's what the glow plugs for, to provide a hot spot in the cylinder for the time before the cylinder heats up. All the heat does NOT come from adiabatic compression.

Yes heat is needed on most when cold.

330 psi cold is very low. Why did you break 2 ring sets? did you square a ring up in the bore and measure your ring gap? i know you had it running and you are most likly correct in that you mis timed the new pump. I try to keep everything simple. K.I.S.S. start at the beginning and you will find your problem faster. Did You pull the front cover like you said you were going to? where are you in the repairs?

[troubleddiesel]

Well.. I removed the front plate, and lined up the ip gear with the camshaft gear.. bleed the lines of all air, and all I'm getting is grey smoke from pipes.. replaced battery cable, and glow plugs work great.. hmmmm.?