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7.3L IDI Diesels (Not Power Strokes) Technical discussion of topics related to vehicles powered by the 7.3 Liter In-Direct Injection Navistar engines.

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Old 04-11-2005, 05:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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High Performance IDI

I Want to build a High performance IDI. Need Injector pump help, turbo etc. First of All is it possible, second who else has one. shop info, web sites, anything would help.
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Old 04-11-2005, 06:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

Might check here http://www.dps-performance.com/ Get with Ken. Rumor has it he can build a mean runner and can get ya started in the right direction.

Ron
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Old 04-11-2005, 09:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

Yup, Ken at DPS is the man for IP,Injectors or anything HO for the IDI. He will be able to set you on the blessed course, he could probably even hook you up with a twinds set up!! Anyhow, good luck and tell us what you are doing, you have peaked our interest. Scotty
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Old 04-12-2005, 03:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

Don't think I've ever used IDI and high performance in the same sentence until now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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Old 04-12-2005, 12:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

Im just tired of the cummins boys having all the fun with the mechanical injection. I want something that will put out some power. Has anyone had an IDI that will put 400-500 horsepower
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Old 04-12-2005, 03:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

Ken at DPS can help. The IDI isn't a very powerful engine... can be made to produce power, but the Cummins will make as much or more power and will last longer doing it.

I've talked to Ken about building me a twin-turbo IDI... good for a 13 second quarter mile and for hauling a 10,000 pound horse trailer as well or better than the new trucks.

Can be done... but longevity is questionable as are the ability to keep EGTs down and engine temperatures down.
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Old 04-12-2005, 06:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

Twin turbos, Head Studs, Lower compression, better Rods, High output injector pump, Propane injection, Water/Meth injection, better head gaskets. If I had some spare money, that's what I would put into one of these old girls [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].
Better yet, I'd like to build a souped up Non-turboed IDI. Same stuff just substitute the twins with lots of Nitrous Oxide [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]. I can see it now...I drive up to BD power dyno days and run with the high RWHP boys. To see the looks on their face when I tell them that is a 1989 Naturally Aspirated Diesel. Man, would that be fun or what!!!
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Old 04-12-2005, 07:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

With twin turbos, and an intercooler, I bet you would have to really be honking on the go pedal in order to make EGT's unreasonable. Twins would be moving ALOT of air, and if you had a solid top end you should STILL have a long and healthy life, if you are not beating the SNOT out of the truck EVERYDAY. I am sure the engines are plenty strong enough, just takes some tweaks to keep everything in place. If I didn't have my truck down for HG's I would run one of Kens twin turboed IDI's in one half a heartbeat. Scotty
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Old 04-12-2005, 08:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

Hey, it's already down for headgashets... might as well go the full length of the field!
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Old 04-12-2005, 09:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

actually,Factory Turbo IDI rods are stronger than Pre PM powerstroke rods.In the same area a PSD rod breaks the Turbo rods have a larger cross section.

Here is what you will need for mega power

Lower compression pistons(Cut down Mahls are Ok since they are Forged)
Polish,Pined,Cryoed turbo rods
Studs
Fire ring the block/head
stronger valve springs
Reground cam(optional)
port polish heads,intake manifold and exhaust(headers?!?!)
Higher boost turbo to feed the low compression pistons
Big ol honkin exhaust system
Intercooler
water/meth injection
Propane
Nitros(only with fire rings and studs!)
Very hungry IP with matched set of injectors
Guages out the wahzoo
Bored and sleeved block
and finally,a strong tranny.A stock E4OD or ZF will end up a paperweight in a hurry with the kinda power the above will make set up right.
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Old 04-12-2005, 09:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

Man, I really wished I would have talked to Ken sooner. His twin turboed 300HP IDI is about 2x as much as me doing the HG's. Kinda stinks, I would have foregone getting a Jeep trailer and just had him build my engine. That would have been great, but his phone call to me was a few days too late, but with the set up I have, I really don't have too much trouble getting my junk pulled around. Scotty
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Old 04-12-2005, 10:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

Speaking of which! About 2X the head gasket cost is how much? How much is he asking to do a 300 RWHP IDI?
P.S. (Freight_train) That's a good list! How much money do you think the hardware for that would cost (less the propane, Nitrous, and Tranny). Also, I don't have turbo rods in my 1989 N/A, and I was talking about using billet rods.
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Old 04-12-2005, 11:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

A fire ring is traditionally cut into the head with tooling that turns a perfect circle, and once the SS wire is inserted into the carefully prepared grove, it will clamp tight against the fire ring that is built about the head gasket cylinder opening (I've done a number of the 12 valve Cummins heads when I worked @ BD power) If you look at an IDI head gasket, the circle is not perfect, in fact it takes quite a jog where closest to the nearest cylinder. I'm not sure what kind of tooling you'd use to machine that sort of "indented" circle, but if it were possible I imagine it would be prohibitively expensive.
As another cautionary note, what sort of increased thermal stress do you think the pre-cups are going to take before they start following glow plug tips out through the tail pipe?
Not saying the power can't be achieved, but the notion that it will do that and last for ever has got to be debated. Playing the devils advocate here, on the other hand, what the heck its only money!
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Old 04-13-2005, 12:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

A CNC set up on any good mill would be programable to cut any type of groove in the block easily. The hope of 400 to 500 hp at the rears wheels on the street isn't going to happen. Maybe 300 but anything more is like top fuel and being streetable..... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]
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Old 04-13-2005, 08:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: High Performance IDI

The fire rings we use on diesels are not like the "fire rings" or wire used on blown gas engines, or the fire rings that BD uses. The fire ring used is a .110" thick perfectly concentric ring, basically a jumbo-sized o-ring. A groove is machined into the block just outside of the cylinder wall for the ring to sit in, and ultimately crush into. The stock head gasket is then water-jet cut to sit around the new ring. The purpose of the head gaskets then becomes nothing more than to seal the water and oil passages. The new ring is sealing 100% of the compression.

On an idi it is difficult to get fire rings to seal properly, mainly because of the pre-combustion chamber. The ring will sit directly under the chamber, and if you don't have a good chamber to head seal or the chamber is not exactly flush with the head when torqued down the ring will not seal against the head.

The fire rings used are currently holding in 115+psig of boost on a 7.3L powerstroke. The other trick to get fire rings to seal is you need to keep the heads down, but that's no longer an issue.

[ QUOTE ]
As another cautionary note, what sort of increased thermal stress do you think the pre-cups are going to take before they start following glow plug tips out through the tail pipe?

[/ QUOTE ]

In a daily driver, the pre combustion chambers can be left alone. In a high performance application we port them. I have had no issues with melting, breaking, or otherwise destroying the pre combustion chambers, both high performance and daily driver.

Build the engine properly, don't take shortcuts (I know, most of the time that's not cheap), tune the engine properly, and it will last.

Ken
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