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7.3L IDI Diesels (Not Power Strokes) Technical discussion of topics related to vehicles powered by the 7.3 Liter In-Direct Injection Navistar engines.

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Old 11-21-2012, 07:37 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 91dirtydiesel View Post
Who's to say u didn't get some **** inside it when u took cover off? How about governor, torque screw, timing procedure ? To many variables when people start messing with **** that shouldn't be messed with (per settings of "hot" pumps)

"Design of pumps" it's design is not to be tampered with....it's not a DB2 it's an RD4.
That's fine, if I decide I need a hotter pump for my IDI because I've decided to spend more money chasing power than if I just bought a newer truck, I'll buy it from someone else.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:10 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Let us know how well that power worked out after you've put a few hundred thou on the engine. If I wanted "power" I'd have gotten a big block gasser or 5.9l and built the hell out of it, and I'd have an engine that would eat ANY 7.3l IDI for an appetizer. My truck does everything I want it to do in stock 185/385 trim and I'm grown up enough not to get wood from rollin' coal, so why would I want to spend my time and money putting stuff on my truck that will make me have to spend even more money on fuel and result in a shorter lifespan for the engine? There's an axiom you should learn - TANSTAAFL.

"Rollin' coal" obviously smoke = power...not. Build a 5.9? Sure, and be like everyone else? Sounds exciting. And Your 185/385 crank power ...125/280 wheel power EGTs and smoke level probably rival my 91....but, I have 220/450 wheel power...no "coal Rollin" here. 225,000mi last 20k have been absolute hell on it and never missed a beat
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:13 AM   #18 (permalink)
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That's fine, if I decide I need a hotter pump for my IDI because I've decided to spend more money chasing power than if I just bought a newer truck, I'll buy it from someone else.
Buying a new truck is the easy way out. What's the fun of that? "Buy from someone else" no such thing. No pump can/will match this, unless u buy one of them used...
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Buying a new truck is the easy way out. What's the fun of that? "Buy from someone else" no such thing. No pump can/will match this, unless u buy one of them used...
If I wanted to chase performance I would have got something with a pump with an inherently superior design, and less cylinders. I bought my IDI to be a work truck and get good mileage. If I could get a 1/4 ton 4x4 with a little bitty diesel I would do that, even though I'm at least among the tallest around these parts. (I admit, though, I love the headroom in the F-Series.)
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I have bought so called performance parts for my F-350. I have been looking for a little more pulling power for when I have the 5th wheel hooked up, but I hope not at the expense of the reliability of this engine. I talked with a mechanic who told me "this is a pulling engine, not a race or performance engine" so I am at about what I intend to do in the performance parts. I have no desire to "roll coal". That to me is wasting my fuel money. From what I have read on here and other sites this engine is one great and reliable engine if maintained properly. I think I even read of someone who has 600,000 miles on theirs. So I think I will relax and just let this thing pull.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
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My truck does everything I want it to do in stock 185/385 trim and I'm grown up enough not to get wood from rollin' coal, so why would I want to spend my time and money putting stuff on my truck that will make me have to spend even more money on fuel and result in a shorter lifespan for the engine? There's an axiom you should learn
Too true, appears to me the whole atmosphere, more correctly, mental maturity of the IDI forums has changed over the years. Originally the members here and elsewhere bought a diesel pickup primarily to tow a vacation, horse, stock, or flatbed trailer and the owner actually had a real job and need for a diesel pickup. Of course you had get decent pay to pay $25,000+/- for a pickup truck back then. Now the main event and only goal, especially on some other sites, is driving around town making noise and smoke and generally beating the crap out of their underpowered 6000lb IDI pig.
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:50 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Too true, appears to me the whole atmosphere, more correctly, mental maturity of the IDI forums has changed over the years. Originally the members here and elsewhere bought a diesel pickup primarily to tow a vacation, horse, stock, or flatbed trailer and the owner actually had a real job and need for a diesel pickup. Of course you had get decent pay to pay $25,000+/- for a pickup truck back then. Now the main event and only goal, especially on some other sites, is driving around town making noise and smoke and generally beating the crap out of their underpowered 6000lb IDI pig.
Lol. Clueless completely clueless. I give up on u guys
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:14 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Ok, I'm not trying to add any fuel to this ruckus, and I am not taking sides (I don't have a side) but I have something to say.

I bought and paid for my trucks with my own hard earned money. They are my trucks, I own 'em, I paid for 'em, and therefore I can do whatever I please with 'em as long as it's legal, right???

Everyone owns their IDI for their own reasons. Some of ya, including me want one for transportation and towing and like the simplicity of a mechanically injected IDI engine. Some own an IDI simply because that is what they can afford, instead of a newer truck that costs a lot more money. Some including myself, (and why I sold my Powerstroke and bought an IDI) like them because they are great WMO burners.

And then some are performance driven and like to take an underdog engine and see what can be done with it. Personally I don't have a problem with that - It is their truck... If they wanta throw a tub full of money at an underdog instead of the usual choice like a Cummins or Stoke, that IS their business. And don't get me wrong, for a 51 year old grandpaw I like performance myself, (thats why I have a 72 Nova with a 450 hp 383 roller cam stroker engine in it ), but I have no interest in trying to make a hotrod outa my IDI. Thats not why I own it....

So....I said it once already but I will say it again guys: It is their truck, they own it, paid for it, and pay the license and fuel costs to drive it, so its their business if they want to push the envelope and limits to see what they can get out of THEIR truck and I say power to 'em. I don't have a personal interest in doing that with mine, but then again, a lot of yall don't have any interest in running WMO.... Just sayin....
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:07 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I dont see a thing wrong with the type warranty on performance parts the site provides.

I do all my own work and know the issues involved with turning a wrench.

There is a saying I have posten on my wall, "Engines dont fail, people fail on engines"

I even have to suck it up when I ruin my own engine for a slew of reasons.

The best one I can add is a collasped lower hose taking out my 7.3 2x with scored pistons each time.

I could of blamed the AMSOIL, the WMO I was burning the second time, the lack of an intercooler, the not so perfect radiator, the flying down the road, or just the fact The lower hose collapsed and I didn't catch it.

I love to laugh at situations others seem to find themselves in as the blame everything on everyone but themselves...


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Old 11-22-2012, 12:48 AM   #25 (permalink)
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So I was told about this thread this afternoon, and after reading it, I really had no interest in posting anything at first, its really the drama BS that I have been trying to avoid in good faith. However, after stewing on a few points, I feel its necessary to address a few things, if not to defend myself, to just point out some facts...

Jerad and Brandon, thanks for the good words, I appreciate it.

That main thing above all is the fact that I am filling the void that hasnt been occupied for this platform in a while, and furthermore never to this extent. That on its own is something to be said. When I decided I needed a fullsize diesel pickup, I started looking for PSD's, I test drove lots of trucks, I could have had a brand new 6.4/6.7 if I wanted to spend that much cash, it would have been no issue for me. That would have been the most practical way out correct? Well one thing about me, is I dont like to do things the way others do things, I like to take something unconventional and do something different with it... Thats what drove me to the IDI... I love 80-97 Fords, and the slantnose and bricknose trucks are even better in my opinion, because you know its not a power stroke... Now I just happened to have a bricknose gasser truck at my disposal when I picked up my engine and trans up off craigslist, so why not combine the two? That was my rationale when starting that project, and I spent a lot of money I didnt have to, but the result is a truck that I wouldnt sell even if somebody had $20,000 in cash to take it off my hands, thats how much I love my truck, and how much it speaks about me as a person... It is me. Now with that being said, had I not met NMB2 at the beginning of my project, things might have gone down a different path, I dont doubt things might have eventually gotten to this point, but without him being somebody who had a running "performance" IDI, as well as somebody intelligent enough to discuss the issues inherent in these engines, AND somebody who wasnt afraid to let it all hang out, and tell it that way, I dont think things would have come to the apex it is at now, NMB2 was the guy who spearheaded this whole thing. My business, and the IDI products I sell are the results of two intelligent guys "getting s**t done" over the last year, something that has never been done until now. NMB2 is moving onto bigger and better things, and when he applies himself there, he will have no issue making even more of a name for himself... Im sticking around and keeping this movement going... Love it or Hate it.

Now onto the issues...

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"Came across" is still nonsensical guerilla marketing.
Jerad has no skin in the game... He is just a guy excited about the prospects for this platform, and just because he posts a thread doesnt mean he is marketing anything, I know he wants to get the word out as much as anybody, because he wants to see the future, and the products I offer go further than any other products to further that cause...

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You don't really have any idea what I am interested in...Read the warranty policy, and you'll see that it is totally subjective to the whims of Justin. I might be interested in some more power if he could warranty his parts just like any other aftermarket/performance seller does.

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Not always the case.



If I installed his cam and it broke, would he replace all the components that it took out?



I have been in the wrencing "business" for a long time and you and I both know that any mechanic worth a darn can make everything the customers fault.



We could argue this thread into a lock, so I will quit now..I do wish him success as I wish anybody success in a business venture during these lousy times.
I thought I was pretty damn straightforward on my warranty policy, and I completely stand by every word on that page. I will NOT offer a blanket warranty on the products I sell, because there is so much that the customer can do to put the light negatively on me that could be caused by their own inemptness. The Warranty is written that way specifically to keep those away, who think that they can do anything they want to a product, and have no consequences to their actions... If you read the quote from my page above, I clearly state that if failure of a part is due to the work that I do, than I will make good on the issue... Am I going to come out and say "If my cam breaks in half (ridiculous anyway), its a product I sold, so therefore I will replace your engine at no cost to you"... Hell no, thats beyond the scope of what my business is... Im not a charity, im not going to spend more time on dealing with every issue some guy just happened to dream up, because he felt like pitching a *****. Now on the other side of the coin, I have put enough time, money, brains, and testing into these products that I am confident that there will be no issues with a sane, relatively intelligent individual. There is a reason I dont have E-commerce on the site, I want to deal with every customer on an individual basis, and if I can tell that you dont have what it takes to run one of these products without bungling something up, Im going to raise some issues. Beyond that, you have to have some sort of knowledge of these things if your going to go modifying them, and if your going to go putting a pump capable of laying down 500whp on fuel on your engine, you gotta have a little responsiblity... If you dont like my warranty policy, its simple, dont buy my products, its no sweat off my balls...

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If I turned it up in a way that was provided for by the design of the pump and described in the documentation then yes, I would expect a warranty on the pump. I wouldn't expect the warranty to cover my pistons if I melted them because I turned up the pump too far, though.
If you could describe to me the proper process for "turning up" a DB4 pump, then there would be no issue with me warranting the pump if it crapped on you. The rest of the adjustments are the same as a DB2, and its common sense... If you dont know what it does, dont screw with it. Thats the whole reason I offer the pump in 3 different forms, so you dont have to mess with it... If you dont know what your doing, and you screw with your pump, Im not going to warranty the pump if it breaks... The reason I did it this way, is because I encourage people to tune their pumps if they know what they are doing, I want them to get the most out of them, but if you dont know what your doing, you have no business doing it, simple as that. Again, if you dont like it, dont buy my products.

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Let us know how well that power worked out after you've put a few hundred thou on the engine. If I wanted "power" I'd have gotten a big block gasser or 5.9l and built the hell out of it, and I'd have an engine that would eat ANY 7.3l IDI for an appetizer. My truck does everything I want it to do in stock 185/385 trim and I'm grown up enough not to get wood from rollin' coal, so why would I want to spend my time and money putting stuff on my truck that will make me have to spend even more money on fuel and result in a shorter lifespan for the engine? There's an axiom you should learn - TANSTAAFL.
Thats the plan, so far so good, and as I have said before, Im not easy on it...

As far as the big block gasser goes, I laugh.... Dollar for dollar, you cannot build a BB ford that puts out as much torque as my IDI, and you wont do it at 2100 RPM regardless... Not to mention, good luck on that fuel mileage... 5.9's are 5.9's but for the amount you spend swapping your cummins in, Ill have an IDI that puts out more power... In the end, the cummins wins, but that goes for pretty much any diesel, if thats what your into, great. As far as the 185/385 goes... I started out with more than that, and it was barely adequate, you must be the slow guy I get stuck behind when Im pulling up the hills around here... Again, if thats what your after, great. The problem about there not being a free lunch as far as your concerned, is this engine has never been tested to its full potential, so your point is moot, and fallacious, your just repeating the same old wrong info thats been spread all over the net about these things, I know because both NMB2 and I have been beating the info back every step of the way, and so far, every piece of mis-info has been blown out of the water... When you get to the point of being able to make an educated judgement on the matter, you can determine to what degree something is a free lunch.

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Originally Posted by drinkypoo View Post
That's fine, if I decide I need a hotter pump for my IDI because I've decided to spend more money chasing power than if I just bought a newer truck, I'll buy it from someone else.
If you can find a brand new truck that puts out more power than my IDI, buy it, because its an anomaly... Can they make more, yes, but you wont find one off the lot like that, and have fun spending 50+k on it...Your not the type of person I am catering to anyway. And as Brandon said, good luck finding a pump like this anywhere, there are two guys that know how to build it like this, and one of them is under contract by the place he works, so your only option is me...

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Originally Posted by LMJD View Post
Too true, appears to me the whole atmosphere, more correctly, mental maturity of the IDI forums has changed over the years. Originally the members here and elsewhere bought a diesel pickup primarily to tow a vacation, horse, stock, or flatbed trailer and the owner actually had a real job and need for a diesel pickup. Of course you had get decent pay to pay $25,000+/- for a pickup truck back then. Now the main event and only goal, especially on some other sites, is driving around town making noise and smoke and generally beating the crap out of their underpowered 6000lb IDI pig.
I assume you are alluding to me...

And you are the Judge of mental maturity I take it?




The first pic is what I tow every other weekend, during about 3/4 of the year...~15klbs

The second is an enclosed car trailer... I also tow smaller trailers on a regular basis... My truck is also a DD, so it gets driven every day...

If you think my 6K lb "pig" is underpowered... You have no business posting in this thread...

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Old 11-22-2012, 04:32 AM   #26 (permalink)
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"Rollin' coal" obviously smoke = power...not. Build a 5.9? Sure, and be like everyone else? Sounds exciting. And Your 185/385 crank power ...125/280 wheel power EGTs and smoke level probably rival my 91....but, I have 220/450 wheel power...no "coal Rollin" here. 225,000mi last 20k have been absolute hell on it and never missed a beat
There's a reason "everyone else" swaps in a 5.9l - it's relatively inexpensive, they can make a LOT of power, and they last forever at high power levels. As for smoke, unless I'm trailering I rarely see any because I know how to take off without blowing money out the exhaust. EGT? If you know how to pick your gear and how hard to press on the accelerator EGT will never be a problem. 20K miles? The engine would last at least that long without an oil change and just having 15W40 dino juice dumped in to replace what leaked or was burned. Like I said, the true test is putting a couple hundred K on something. The 7.3l IDI is a great engine, don't get me wrong, but you're not going to make the same power as a stock Cummins, Duramax, or PowerStroke - at least, not for as long as theyll make it. You're just not. The main reasons to buy an IDI are because they're easy and inexpensive to work on, troubleshooting is simple, they get good fuel economy for having a purely mechanical fuel system, and because there's still a lot of parts support from Navistar.
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:49 AM   #27 (permalink)
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The problem about there not being a free lunch as far as your concerned, is this engine has never been tested to its full potential, so your point is moot, and fallacious, your just repeating the same old wrong info thats been spread all over the net about these things, I know because both NMB2 and I have been beating the info back every step of the way, and so far, every piece of mis-info has been blown out of the water... When you get to the point of being able to make an educated judgement on the matter, you can determine to what degree something is a free lunch.
Ah, the old "nobody has done what I'VE done" argument. Well, I've been operating and working on gassers & diesels in military & industrial use for over 20 years now, on everything from 3-cyl Kubotas that do nothing but run hydraulic pumps and Onan L423s to 6.2l, 7.3l, & 5.9l, to 8V92s and VT903s. There's even been a bit on a Continental AVDS-1790, now THAT is an interesting beast! My point is I've seen a LOT of what happens with everyday use of diesels of just about any power level you can imagine. There's a reason why the manufacturer of a 120KVA airliner Ground Power Unit uses a stock 12V 5.9l Cummins instead of building a 3.9l to make the same power. People who deal primarily with light-duty cars & trucks don't really understand the heavy-duty/industrial/marine side of things.

ETA That being said, there are enough 6.9l & 7.3l still in use to generate a market demand for performance parts, and I congratulate you for stepping up to get your own piece of that market. I still think you're barking up the wrong tree, but I'm not your target market so what I think doesn't matter. I'm personally working on & off to design a frame repair section for Jeeps, to repair the typical damage done when the weld-nuts for the skidplate bolts spin and have to be torched out. Actually, the design is pretty much done, I just have to make a dozen or so sets, install one on mine, and give away the rest to get feedback on design, installation, and performance. I've seen too many Jeeps scrapped because of this issue (and others), and haven't found what I consider to be a satisfactory solution yet. Having access holes torched in my own frame got me thinking about how to do this, and hopefully before too long I'll finish my prototypes and install them on my own rig. I doubt it'll ever make me rich, but I'm doing it more because I perceive a need for it than to make any real money off it.
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1991 F350 Lariat XLT, 7.3l, 5-speed, crew cab, SRW, 3.55, 2WD.

1990 Jeep Wrangler Sahara, in the process of a major overhaul/upgrade. OM617 on the horizon! Front & rear Dana 44s from a Wagoneer till I get some 1-ton axles built & narrowed, and eventually a front shackle reversal. Diesel YJ, bay-BEE, and not a cookie-cutter 4BT conversion!

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Old 11-22-2012, 06:53 AM   #28 (permalink)
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There's a reason "everyone else" swaps in a 5.9l - it's relatively inexpensive, they can make a LOT of power, and they last forever at high power levels.
Aye, there's the rub. If I wanted a race engine I wouldn't have bought an IDI in the first place. I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude about high-power IDIs, but so far there's no evidence they can be made as reliable as other engines, and they are really something of a PITA to work on (the work is conceptually simple, but actually putting your hands on things can be awful, especially if you have massive hands as I do) so I'm really not trying to create more work for myself. Ford put this engine in with a shoehorn as it is.
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:07 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I see a lot of good info on this site and appreciate that the tried and true 7.3 will be with us for years to come. I myself am setting up one to run WMO and will be using it as a DD for my wife and family trips because they are co cheap to maintain (not just the 7.3 but the whole truck 91F250)

I run a VW TDI bug as a DD because it too is very reliable and gets better than 45mpg at 75-80mph and I drive about 150 miles a day. The bug by the way has 241k and is still running strong with minimal maintenance. (timing belts)

I am one to keep it simple and while I will be installing a turbo and cooler and turning the pump up slightly will stay pretty stock. I am intrigued by how much power can be had by this engine. I have built many an engine in my younger days (read before kids) spent many dollars hopping up BB chevys. I am thankful that someone is still building parts for these old dino's and do not understand the atitude about his warranty. When have you ever gotten a warranty for any internal engine component from the aftermarket? How many of you have collected on said warranty? It is buyer beware and make sure you dont screw up when putting it together in my opinion. Good luck to you Sir and I hope you make many a dollar on your labors.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:13 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I bought my IDI after researching for an engine that is reliable and would easily run WVO and WMO.

After putting on a Moose pump and bb code injectors, I now have a nice horsepower bump and my intercooler is on the way. I can't wait for a dyno session. I'd like to make several runs to see where to hp and torque levels peak and various timing adjustments. My 088 is already pushing nearly 16 psi. I may stud the heads next year, add a cam, and go for more boost.

My goal is 300 hp and 500 lb/tq, but I think I'll need more fuel.
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'92 F350 crew cab, dually, 7.3L IDI, ATS088 turbo, Moose pumped, bb coded, e4od, 3.55 gears, 2wd

'Fuging free WMO fuel with a WVO Design Extreme unit

Last edited by Blind DrIver; 11-22-2012 at 09:16 AM.
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