New Info, Low Sulpher Diesel - Diesel Forum

mdkarle · 08-01-2006, 03:20 PM

Here is what I found out through a good source that I work with who is our Fuels Technician. I was finely able to track him down and spent the last hour on the phone with him. He got back from a major fuel producer, marketing and retail outlet meeting in Chicago a couple of months back where major representatives from the major producers such as Valero, the Federal EPA and Bush Administration talked about the short and long range goals for fuels in not just the non-obtainment areas but the entire country.

First of all I was told we can breath a sigh of relief that Valero, Exxon/Mobil and other producers are working on and introducing additives built/mixed within the new diesel fuel to cure the leaking problems. So all of us whom own the older diesel vehicles have no need to worry about the leaking issue. I was told since the additives are new and they are just being introduced, we still need to watch our vehicles closely for leaks and if any should form, we need to go ahead with replacements of the gaskets and o-rings until these additives are perfected and get into fuel supply. I was told if anyone has just replaced o-rings or gaskets, that we should be fine with no real problems of leaking expected however keep a watch on your vehicle for leaks just to be safe for the next several months. I was told you can expect a small drop in MPGs but that to should be minor however price increases will be the main issue. In my area the cost of diesel has increased from $2.84 to $3.01 per gallon in most cases just over night. As to clean air and non-obtainment areas: This new low sulpher diesel fuel, TX Lead in our case, along with the new 90% Unlead/10 Alcohol blend, is being pushed to eventually become the only fuels sold anywhere in the US. This is the Bush Administration and the EPA’s goal with the major producers backing them, simply put, not so much for cleaning up the environment but the economics driven by demand. The government and producers want the entire country using the same fuels no matter where you live. After all, the high demand, major market and volume for fuels are the non-obtainment areas. The non-obtainment areas are the center of large populations, + the largest markets + the highest demand = the driving force for dollars especially in the pocket of the producers and oil companies. In other words these markets and their millions of gallons in volume are where the most money is made for the producers thus we will all eventually have to buy the same fuels because having everyone in the US using the same fuels should help stabilize prices if not help bring down the price but most importantly line the pockets of the producers with more of our hard earned dollars. If the government and producers truly get what they are wanting, which almost they always do, the days of gourmet specialty blended fuels for different States and non-obtainment areas will go away in the near future. Think about it, what else would make the majority of this country’s government administration, environmentalist, fuel producers and etc. happy all at one time if everyone uses the exact same diesel fuel and gasoline? Pulling in the rest of the country in the obtainment/clean air areas makes sense, especially for those who stand to make money off us by increasing the millions of gallons and the producers no longer have to gear or dedicate portions of or entire plants to the current gourmet specialty blended fuels for different States and non-obtainment areas. If they can mandate and produce one fuel for all then the producers and oil companies stand to make even more millions of dollars on top of what they already make off you and I.

If bio diesel is available in your area, it is recommended you try using the bio-diesel because it may quickly become less expensive per gallon than buying the new low suplher diesel. Bio-diesel is not taxed with the federal road tax of $0.20 cents per gallon since it is a 80/20 blend by being consider a non-taxable food item.

Please do not fear major problems with leaking from having to use the new low sulpher diesels since the additives blended into the fuel should take care of the problem shortly. I know I am breathing better now that I know I don’t have to give up the old truck over the new fuel.

CharlyJoe · 08-01-2006, 03:42 PM

You typed so much that MY hands are hurting [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

That's great information, and a unique insight. It certainly makes sense. I'm glad you're breathing easier, but frankly I'm despondent knowing that one day I'll be stuck with Tex Lead.

Mr_Roboto · 08-01-2006, 05:16 PM

Are you stating that there is an additive which will make the seals swell? That is what the aromatics do, and the lack of aromatics is making the seals shrink.

mdkarle · 08-01-2006, 05:51 PM

The additive is being put directly into the fuels by the producers at the plant to fix the problem by making the gaskets and o-rings swell. I will see if I can find out what these additives are and what they do. Information may not be available as of yet since they are so new but I will see what I can do.

mdkarle · 08-01-2006, 06:18 PM

PS: Rest assured the additives will work because I have deep faith in our Fuel Technician that the additives he said the producers are adding will work. I buy a little over 3.5 million gallons of diesel per year for a fleet of 1,500+ diesel-powered trucks and off road equipment and have additional entities in our area buying off our contracts at an additional 4 million gallons per year. Think of how many more millions of gallons others out there buy including the general public throughout the US. The entire Nation would be shut down and the economy would bust over night if the problem of leaking from the new low sulpher diesel were not corrected in some way. There are hundreds of millions of older diesel powered vehicles and equipment out there in the US not built with the new gaskets or o-rings designed for fuels without sulpher so not to worry, the additives will work.

Snotzalot · 08-01-2006, 07:04 PM

Great, thanks for the follow up!

Zrob · 08-02-2006, 04:30 AM

umm, not to be a buttmunch, but that's what lots of us have been saying for months.

There is no way in he** they could sell a fuel that was destructive to the billions of dollars worth of construction equipment out there. Let alone, all the trucks.

I guess some peeps just needed a little more reassurance?

Snotzalot · 08-02-2006, 12:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess some peeps just needed a little more reassurance?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, some of us "peeps" don't spend all day reading this forum, and once in awhile it's good to discuss the issue.

tim94f250 · 08-02-2006, 01:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There are hundreds of millions of older diesel powered vehicles and equipment out there in the US not built with the new gaskets or o-rings designed for fuels without sulpher so not to worry, the additives will work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hundreds of millions? That's a lot of equipment. Do you mean hundreds of thousands? I just can't fathom that amount of equipment. Tim

CharlyJoe · 08-02-2006, 02:19 PM

The largest 500 fleets in the US account for over 1 million diesels to begin with, so counting smaller fleets, owner/operators, and off-road equipment it's not hard to imagine 10 million diesels, if not more.

Mr_Roboto · 08-02-2006, 02:48 PM

Seals leaked when they switched to LSD in the early 90's.

Gasoline engines were damaged when leaded gas was no longer available for older engines with non-hardened valve seats.

Oxygenated (alcohol added) fuels wrecked havoc on cars when it was phased in.

Why do you believe now that fuel will not be sold which will damage vehicles?

All the government cares about it that NEW vehicles will run on the fuel. The EPA wants EVERY old vehicle off of the road.

Jred · 08-02-2006, 03:14 PM

I am not sure i agree with the additives stopping leaking problems. I have a 94 with 160,000 on it that started leaking at the caps on three injectors since the station by me switched over. I have only had the truck for a couple of months so i have no idea how old they were but i would keep an eye on things. I actaully didnt notice any smell because the new stuff dousent have much. I noticed because my truck was smoking after i shut it off from it dripping on the Y pipe. I replaced all the O-rings this past weekend and everything seems fine now.

CharlyJoe · 08-02-2006, 03:28 PM

I could believe an additive (depending on the composition) might help prevent leaking in the first place, but don't see how it would stop leaks after the fact, either.

I also believe Roboto is right on the money in suggesting that the EPA wants the old vehicles off the road ASAP. They don't get credit for initiatives unless they can show diminishing emissions.