New User, same problem, E4OD - Diesel Forum

in2fords · 02-28-2006, 12:55 AM

Hey eveyone,
My name Is Jeremy, currently in Hawaii but leaving shortly. Heard about this site thru others that I frequent and thru search engines. I really like what you guy's have done with the site, very informative and user friendly.

now on to the dirty stuff.
I have a 1991 f250,4x4, e4od with about 128K miles. the tranny was rebuilt 30K miles ago in 2002, got a new T.C. and I guess a basic rebuild, receipt is not clear. replaced the fluid and filter every 10K miles, yeah I know excessive. I always use valvoline mercron/dexron III. I wanted to monitor the debris in the pan. never much mud in the pan, but the last 10K miles the fluid has smelled burnt and trans has been slipping alittle, but still not much clay in the pan. got stuck in the mud about 8K miles ago and was heavy in the reverse for about a half hour while various sized trucks and winchs yanked. only thing's I accomplished were overheating the trans because the bottom of the radiator was in the "thick enough for me to walk on clay like substance" and turning the new rear tires into drag slicks then paying the $300 extracion fee and using AAA to tow home. did a filter change and tranny didnt act different then before the stuck. about a 1k miles ago I was backing over a small gutter and into a drive way with a small load of dirt and just like that I lost reverse, never a warning, just gone. when I put it in reverse I hear a small thud and it seems as if the Idle drops just like its in gear, but no movement.

so now I want to rebuilt it correctlty. I have rebuilt engine's and brakes and can do electrical but have allways left the transmisions and rear ends up to the pro's. I have heard it is possible for a person that is mechanicly inclined (but dont know how to spell) to rebuild this trans.

1) is it possible for me to rebuild this trans with the right tools?

The last rebuild I got a new "stainless" T.C. and the guy said that I should never have to replace it if I get another rebuild in the future.

2) should I get this T.C. flushed and reuse it or is that a bad idea?

3) I want to do all the upgrades,where would be the best place to get it all in a package?

4)will a rebuild fix the reverse or are those symptoms a sign I need other new internalls?
thank you for any help you can provide, Jeremy

cdnsarguy · 02-28-2006, 06:39 AM

Jeremy welcome to TDS and the IDI basement .......

First have you checked for any fault codes from the trans. Do you have a flashing TCIL light. Do your tach and speedo work flawlessly. So you have no reverse but forward is fully operational through all gears...yes/no.

OkieGringo · 02-28-2006, 09:55 AM

This is from my "Library" posted by another member, but I didn't get his name...

Full-size trucks first received the huge E4OD (Electronic 4 speed OverDrive) transmission in 1989. Internally, it is essentially a C-6 with overdrive added to the front (such as the A4LD is to the C-3) and an EEC controlled valve body.

If it becomes necessary to overhaul your E4OD transmission, you should perform as many updates as possible if it is a pre-1995 unit. E4OD component updates include, as an example, the following items:

Improved (thicker) converter clutch piston (circa 1994), prevents the formation of cracks which relieve fluid pressure from the apply side of the clutch, causing it to slip and even bluing the outside surface of the torque converter in extreme cases. Ensure that your new converter contains an updated OEM or "LuK" brand heavy-duty clutch. This can be difficult, as many torque converter suppliers and remanufacturers may not use this new style of clutch.

Higher displacement front pump (for 1995) provides more fluid capacity for faster engagement of reverse and greater lube flow.

New (for 1994) 4-pinion overdrive planet and input shaft assemblies replace older 3 and 4 pinion units which tend to develop cracks in the carrier under heavy loads.

Center support update kit (for units built from 1989 through part of 1994) replaces wear-prone bushing with a ball bearing and contains a new overdrive stub shaft.

Stronger overdrive clutch cylinder snap ring which will not dislodge.

Revised sun gear and rear case bushings (circa 1992 model year) provide longer wear life and better lubrication.

Four pinion planet carriers (first used in 1992 model year)

New forward clutch friction plates with hardened internal splines cure "chatter" and "no-drive" conditions in E4OD and some later C-6 transmissions.

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Try www.transmissionpartsusa.com, they have real good prices and have not only tool for the E4Od but Sonnax upgrade parts for the pump among other things.
www.bulkpart.com has rebuild kits and small parts kits and upgrade packages to Red Eagle frictions and Kolene steels which are better than the stock setup.
Do a search on Richter69, he has a good pictorial on rebuilding the E4OD, plus good tips and shop built tools which is great. Always replace the output shaft snap ring on the rebuild, the Ford standard number is 387031-S.
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The slide hammer can be a universal type as used in body work, you actually are supposed to use 2. One on each side, but alternateing 1 side to side to pull the pump will work. The adapter mates the slide hammer threaded shaft to the threaded holes in the pump. These tools maybe available on the sites mentioned or local. The next tool will possibly be an OTC Ford Rotunda only-- Clutch spring compressor T89T-70010-F. You will also need the gear train tool for disassembly and reassembly. Read further and you will see it mentioned. That tool is available aftermarket.

The missing checkballs indicate you have a later model tranny or a shift kit has been installed. The servo piston also, it was revised to eliminate the plate and snap ring. The snapped shaft is the input shaft and goes from the torque converter to the OD planet carrier. So Far your probably in for replacement of the shaft and OD planet carrier and probably TC due to the metal shavings.

The upgrade info mentioned is correct except the lastest design for the planets is 6 pinion front and rear and 4 for OD all with cast iron carriers. These parts bring strength up to 2002 4r100 Diesel level. Since your fixing it to sell your probably not wanting to upgrade it, just fix it. The ball bearing center support and pump alone will upgrade an IDI tranny to Powerstroke 95-97 strength with the used planets i have. 94-97 diesel units have the same strength planets.

in2fords · 02-28-2006, 01:55 PM

Tach and speedo work flawless, I have all foward but it does slip sometimes, has for a long time, and no reverse at all, not even a nudge. I havent checked codes because I need to find my little scanner dealio,flashing TCIL light? havent seen any flashing light but what is this? Im actually not selling this truck, Im shipping it to Oakland and driving her up to Medford Oregon, so I need to make sure to fix it with all the updates. thanks for the great info, that is what I was looking for, Ill check with them on prices. I've been waiting to order a kit to buy the atsg and update books, but with these it sound as if this is my best route. I called up the local tranny shop and if I bring them the tranny and all parts labor alone would be $1200!!!!!!!!!!! and even then Im skeptical after the last one didnt last long and I actually baby this truck. only off-road'd once and it was just a dirt road with a mud puddle, never carry more then 300lbs in the bed and never rev her past 3K and only get there once in a great while and I only got less then 30K on a $1900 rebuild. If you want something done right you gotto do it yourself, and you guy's are making it possible, Thanks.

Mr_Roboto · 02-28-2006, 05:12 PM

Hi Jeremy. I went through a couple E4OD's last year in one of my 94 E350's. First unit I paid $1100 for from a auto dismantler. Unfortunately, a ball bearing went bad in this one and ruined the trans within a month of installing. I started tearing the trans apart, then decided I couldn't afford to rebuild it myself and risk it not working. A local trans shop wanted about $1300 to do a rebuild with a "out the door" warantee.

Interestingly, my trans lost forward gears but still had reverse. Broken something somewhere I suppose.

I bit the bullet and went to Ford and got a reman. It comes with a 3/36 warranty and has all the updated parts. My cost with tax was $1,930. That was with my Ford discount, and I think the parts guy shaved off a little more because it was such an expensive item and I bought a lot from them. But it is certainly worth a call to your dealer to get a price.

You can also sometimes find "new" Ford remans on eBay. People will buy the wrong one, or buy and never use. Of course buying this way you probably wouldn't have the warranty.

Whatever you replace your trans with, you MUST, MUST flush the cooler lines and cooler, and install a Magnefine filter in the return line from the cooler. I used kerosene pumped by a cheap fuel pump, and filtered through a fuel filter on return to flush my coolers and lines. I flushed both directions to get as many contaminants out as possible. I then blew everything out both ways with air till it came out dry.

Without flushing and installing a line filter, any contaminants will go into the new trans and vastly accelerate its' wear. Magnefine filters come with Ford remans, and are also readily available on eBay.

DSBlack · 02-28-2006, 05:43 PM

If it were me I would bite the bullet and get a Jasper or better yet, a BTS rebuilt unit. I have been through 3 "reman" trans from the for dealer and I am not out of my 3/36 warantee yet!
No ont that I remeber hearing about has had a major issue with either of these.

in2fords · 03-01-2006, 12:39 AM

Id love to buy a trans, but they ussually require a core, or extra $700-800, living in Hawaii it would require shipping both ways, at an average $600-800 per way on top of the trans price, Ford is $3500 carry out rebuild, thats time and money I dont have. I have about $1500, maybe a bit more, but the only way I can afford to rebuild it right, I have to do it myself. to have a shop rebuild it is atleast $800 in labor alone, I'd have to buy a pretty cheap kit to afford it. Im not to intimadated, I have a month or maybe even 2 months before I ship the truck. I have a car to drive in the meantime so I can take my time and have the truck down for a while and since Im not working I can spend almost all my time on it. Im still searching right now but am close to buying a kit and getting started.
thanks for the heads up on the lines, I'll look for a inline filter, does it stay in or is it only for flushing the lines/cooler? I am buying a pan with a plug, been doing it the hard way all this time.
Jeremy

Mr_Roboto · 03-01-2006, 11:40 AM

The Magnafine filter is permanent. I use a cheap fuel filter to filter any particulates when flushing, or else you just pump them back into the coolers. To flush I use a 1 gallon jug to pump kerosene out of, through the cooler lines, through cheap fuel filter and back into jug. I did mine for a couple hours, back and forth each direction.

Trans pan with drain plug, order from Ford dealer for a 2000 F250, 5.4L 4R100 trans, 4x4. Get a filter kit for the same app from the parts store. This is a direct bolt on.

in2fords · 03-01-2006, 12:38 PM

another question is if I update to '97 specs do I still use dexron III or do I use mercon V? could that have been the problem with this last trans? I always ass-u-me'd to use dexron III because it is a 1991.

Casey_1 · 03-01-2006, 12:39 PM

Use MERCON fluid. Most MERCON fluids will also say DEXRON III on them. Don't use MERCON V.

Mr_Roboto · 03-01-2006, 12:45 PM

I don't believe Mercon V was ever spec'd for the E4OD / 4R100. It may have been spec'd for the lighter truck transmissions as well as cars.

Basically each new transmission fluid is thinner than the last, in the quest for better fuel economy. There are a number of posts on the board about E4OD / 4R100 failures after using Mercon V.

olivera149 · 03-02-2006, 07:02 PM

I just got my trans rebuilt a basic cost me $1,500 but i only need my truck for a DD now. Before i had enough money saved up i was wondering the same as you and looked into rebuilding it myself. Since this was the original trans i decided to take it to a local reputable shop that my dad has done business with before to get all the updates. However, i did come across some books that were recommended to me by others that have succesfully rebuilt their own trans. Unfortunately i cant find were i bookmarked them now, if i find them i will send a PM your way. A good rebuild kit should only cost a couple hundred dollars, and okie gave a good list of tools that will be needed. On ford-truck.com a guy rebuilt his own e4od and wrote up an article, in the mean time google for some transmission books if i can find the ones that were appointed to me i will send the names to you.

--Ryan

in2fords · 03-07-2006, 12:20 AM

allright, purchasing bauman master rebuild kit, valve body and hard parts update in the morning, ordering the ATSG rebuild and the update manuals now. allready got the pan and filter kit from local Ford stearlership. should all be here in a couple weeks, by then I should have the trans out and started on the teardown. with all the articles written on it and all your guy's advise Im expecting no problems. Will update as progress allows, Jeremy

in2fords · 03-18-2006, 05:38 PM

Of course life happens, I ordered the atsg manuals that night, then the next morning it flooded here at my parents house. My girlfriend and I are staying here becuase we are leaving the Island soon so all of our things were boxed in the storage room. gone, had to send what we have left by mail and buy my girlfriends ticket so she can go ahead while I clean up the mess around here. my savings are almost depleted, dont know if I will have the money to rebuild this thing or not. Im giving it one last try before I rip the trans out though, I would really like to think it is a problem with the shift solenoids, anyway to test it? I found my scanner and it came up with nothing, I put on a new mlps, I was going to anyway, still the same, I figure if the reverse solenoid went out it might not come up on codes. Im grasping at straws here, I have no place to work on it because of the damage from the flood, and will have little time to rebuild it while Im repairing the house. I have reverse lights, goes foward fine now that I replaced the mlps no slipping, all wiring looks good except for the batch of lights that run under the drivers door sill, I think those are only for the interior lights? and my fuel gauges have been weird for about 5 months, one tank reads lower then actuall level and one higher?? are there any test I can do on the trans computer? it could have gotten wet at some point in time, there is a little rust hole behind the dash, the grounds look clean but I will pull all connectors and clean all grounds looking for corosion. is there any thing anyone can think of? Im in the middle of throwing away thousands of dollars of my stepfathers photography/blackroom/art studio that got destroyed in the flood, amazing how think clay mud and black room dont mix! if you can think of anything please let me know. Thanks, Jeremy

in2fords · 03-18-2006, 06:44 PM

holy good lord, when I replaced the mlps I noticed the clips on the connector were broken but didnt care because the new mlps came with an updated waterproof connector. For only god knows what reason I never thought about pulling the connector from the other side, shift solenoid connector, got to it today, no cover, no clips and water mud and grime in the connector, of course I allready dropped the pan and tried to unbolt the solenoid body BEFORE I made this discovery. Im going to try to find a connector for it, clean it all out and refill it, maybe it will work. could this faulty connection caused internall damage? where can I find a new connector? thanks, Jeremy