No Start, no smoke, do I have a died IP?

[skipper416]

Yesterday I started the truck, it ran for about 20 seconds then died. I cranked it a dozen times, 15 seconds each, at least 3 minutes intervals, no start, no smoke out of the tailpipe. OK, must be air in fuel or not enough fuel to IP, I've got experience in this. Checked everything, fuel flow to the IP with good volume and pressure, bled out the air, tried again, same. OK, must be the FSS thing, I've had it died on me before, replaced the FSS a few months ago. So I checked it, "click" just fine, both wires are hot too. I put a charger on it and plugged in the heater. tried again this afternoon, cracked open 2 injector nuts, and opened the large return line and sticked it into a bottle, tried again, same result, no fuel drops at the injector lines, plenty of fuel returned to the bottle.

My only conclusion is my IP went bad on me. It's a reman with only 50k on it. Have I missed something? Is there a test I can try just to be sure? Is there anyone you can recommend for a rebuid IP in Vancouver, BC, Canada?

Thank you very much for your help.

[Snotzalot]

How good/old are your return lines and caps?

[skipper416]

Originally Posted by Snotzalot

How good/old are your return lines and caps?

I replaced return lines and caps about a year ago, never have any problems with them since.

[Kevooo]

Have you checked for power at the pump?

[skipper416]

Originally Posted by Kevooo

Have you checked for power at the pump?

There is power at the electrical lift pump, delivering fuel at required volume and pressure, the amount of returned fuel is reasonable. The two wires that connect to the IP are hot when ignition is on, when I disconnect and connect them back on, I can hear loud "click" sound, which probably indicate the solenoids are fine.

Any ideas?

[BuilderBob]

The wires to the FSS should not be hot or warm.
Why did you recently replace it?
Hot wires are a sign that the solenoid is shorting turn to turn, but not opening the valve.
I'd guess bad FSS.

I/P's are likely to show some signs of age, typically won't hold an idle are the 1st signs.

[skipper416]

Originally Posted by BuilderBob

The wires to the FSS should not be hot or warm.
Why did you recently replace it?
Hot wires are a sign that the solenoid is shorting turn to turn, but not opening the valve.
I'd guess bad FSS.

I/P's are likely to show some signs of age, typically won't hold an idle are the 1st signs.

Sorry for not being clear, BuilderBob. When I said the wires are hot when ignition is on I really meant they have voltage on them, 12v or whatever they suppose to be.

The IP has been fine without any sign of problem before yesterday. It idles steady at 700 rpm when hot. It was cold when I started it yesterday, then died, no matter how much I crank it, no smoke out of the tailpipe. Usually the hotter the pump, the easier to start up, so it's probably not worn out yet.

[skipper416]

After having the truck sitting in the rain for the past 3 days, I tried again this afternoon. I opened up the return line after the tank selector valve, drained it into a bucket while cranking. It produced enough volume to assure me it shouldn't be a fuel restriction problem. I also took off the cap sitting on top of the IP, where the return fitting and FSS are. The IP's reservoir was full, fuel poured out when I took the cap off. So there was fuel inside IP, but the injector lines I loosened days ago stayed bone dry after cranked a dozen times.

What are you guys reading on this?

Thank you very much for your reply.

[cdnsarguy]

First are you familiar with the re installation of the IP cover........ did you do it right.

If you did not then engine run away to destruction can happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You say you have an electric lift pump where is it located...... is the manual lift pump still installed.

When you had the cover off did you check the movement on the metering valve...... it is spring loaded to open.....

I have a Ford TSB that explains what you need to know.......

[cdnsarguy]

Where is this so called electric fuel pump located............did you install it. Do you still have the manual lift pump installed. Just because you disconnected the line from the FSV means nothing regarding any fuel pump........ it will flow like hell due to the fact of the syphoning from the tank.

[skipper416]

Hi, cdnsarguy,

Thanks for your reply. I'm pretty much at the end of my wit now.

My FSS failed over half a year ago, I cried help and you send me instructions on how to fix it, thank you very much. The cover I have is borrowed from a friend's old GM 6.2 engine, which is almost identical. Never had any problem till now. From what I can remember, you drop the cover on with about 1/4 inch offset towards the front, then push it towards the firewall till everything lined up, so you can engage the little arm. Am I doing it right?

The electric pump located before the filter, with the mechanical pump bypassed, but still installed on the engine, just looped inlet and outlet. It's been like that for a few years without problem.

I have no idea why or how to check the movement on the metering valve.

I'd appreciate it if you can email me part of the Ford TSB that can help me back on the road again.

When I disconnect the return line for testing, I clamped one end shut, so there is flow only when I'm cranking the engine.

Originally Posted by cdnsarguy

First are you familiar with the re installation of the IP cover........ did you do it right.

If you did not then engine run away to destruction can happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You say you have an electric lift pump where is it located...... is the manual lift pump still installed.

When you had the cover off did you check the movement on the metering valve...... it is spring loaded to open.....

I have a Ford TSB that explains what you need to know.......

Where is this so called electric fuel pump located............did you install it. Do you still have the manual lift pump installed. Just because you disconnected the line from the FSV means nothing regarding any fuel pump........ it will flow like hell due to the fact of the syphoning from the tank.

[skipper416]

Over the weekend, I unhooked the return line on the cap of the IP, clamped it and hooked a clear line on the fitting, routed the IP return fuel to a milk jar. After cranking about 20 times, 15 seconds with 3 minutes cool down period, I collected about 1 liter or 1/4 gallon fuel in the jar. Is the flow ok?

I saw a few small air bubbles when I cranked for the first couple times. I still have no fuel at the injector lines where the nuts were loosened 1/2 turn.

What should be my next move? Thank you very much for your help.

[Snotzalot]

If you have an electric pump, why are you cranking the motor? If electric, turn on the key to the run position and it should pump.

[skipper416]

Thanks for the advice, I plugged it in for an hour, then use a rag soaked with gasoline covering air intake, held a Gatorade bottle with twist cap full of gasoline. Loosened half a dozen injector nuts, with one complete off. The return line on top of IP routed to a milk jar using a clear line.

Started right up on gasoline vapor, kept it running by pouring a small stream of gasoline onto the rag. After about 30 seconds, quite large amount of fuel started appearing on the loosened injector nuts, tiny air bubbles appeared in the clear line for a few seconds, the milk jar almost full. Shut if off, tightened all nuts. Tried to run it a couple more times with gasoline soaked rag, it died immediately after I stopped pouring gasoline onto the rag. What should I try next?

Thank you very much for the help.

[trampsdieseltruck]

put a clear fuel line from the ip to the return line and look for bubbles when cranking the engine.just because you are getting fuel you could be gettig air in the lines. had the same problem with my 92.ended up being the sending unit in the tank.i was getting fuel and air in my lines.had the fuel sending unit rebuilt for $60(dealership wanted $300)truck starts great now