rag joint? and steering box seal.

[R0oster06]

ok figured out the steering problem. Tightend the adjust screw and it helped alot but still play. went down to see my parts guy and he told me the rag joint is gone. so hes got one for me i just have to pick it up. how bad are these to change he said i may have to pull off the power steering pump to fix it. Has anyone done this and can yall give me a write up maybe because i have no experiance with steering. Also i have a blow seal under the gear box where the pitman arm goes in, he said all i have to do is pull off the pitman arm pull the c ring and start the vehicle and crank the wheel real fast to blow out the seal. Then just knock the seal in with a tube that fits the seal with a hammer put the c ring and the clamp in and im good. Does this all sound about right?


-Jeremy Roooster! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Willie]

Sounds interesting but I've never done such a thing. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

[BuilderBob]

It is beyond most of our capabilities, due to the Pitman Arm shaft being pitted and corroded.
This corrosion will wear the O-ring, and fail again.
NAPA just under $200, Do it right the first time, What a messy job!

[R0oster06]

please expand on this now you have me in not such a good mood. If it cost 200 ill wait and keep pouring power steering fluid in till i hit about 500 dollars worth of fluid. lol. what makes you say that. beyond most of our capabilities? why do you say that.a nd if i put the seal in how long will it take for it to start wearing down and leaking again. i broke the seal playing in the mud. if i put the seal in do you think it will hold for awhile untill i can afford a new arm?


-Jeremy Roooster! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[BuilderBob]

The seal on the Pitman Arm shaft will go bad in a number ways, it can leak, it can leak alot or it can split, or it can blow out completely.
The fluid can come out 1 pint a/month or 1 pint in a second, who knows.

The corrosion on the shaft can not be repaired, it must be replaced. If YOUR shaft appears clean, without pits and galling, then maybe it will hold a new seal, the key word is MAYBE.

I recall the rebuild kit (the seal) is about $25. Also NAPA

One of the facts of life, is to give an honest estimate of your capabilites.

From my point of view it is far cheaper to buy a NAPA rebuild, it has a lifetime warranty.

Good Luck

And by the way, there are 2 seals on this shaft, top and bottom

[R0oster06]

ok sounds good lookslike ill just do the seal and see what happens knowing my luck the new seal wont hold. can someone help me on the rag joint?


-jeremy Roooster! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Willie]

I am following this thread as my time will come I am sure. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sick.gif[/img] How about just getting one from a salvage yard ?? Removal is easy, that I have done. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The rag joint is that metal flange with a rubberish looking pad joined to another metal flange welded to the steering pipe and on upwards to the steering wheel. ( Got that from a Google search on " Rag Joints " )

[R0oster06]

youve pulled one? did the power steering pump have to be pulled? It would cost mor eto go to a salvage yard gas and the part when the rubber deal is only 12.99



-Jeremy Roooster! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[d9d]

The only problem with that Bob, is that about 50% of the "rebuilt" steering gears are pure junk. I say this from direct personal experience.

I have bought about 6 of them from NAPA over the past 4 years, and 3 of them have been bad out of the box. Either just as sloppy as the old ones, or leaking, or with bad (overly hard) steering-effort. VERY frustrating; as this is not an easy-to-swap part like an alternator...

For me, the "lifetime guarantee" isn't worth spit; because it's a 2 hour drive round trip to get the part; and on some vehicles, like a Grand Cherokee for example, it's a multi-hour bit*h of a job to get them in and out. I guess these F350's aren't bad, but some vehicles sure are...

Heck, no matter the vehicle, swapping pitman arms just ain't fun! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

The issue with the output-shaft seal is more often related to the bushing getting loose and having so much radial-play that it eats up the seal. The bushing is replaceable if you have a reasonably equipped shop. Or can be done with hand-tools and jackpine-savagery if yer motivated enough... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

If the bushing is snug, the shaft can be cleaned up and a new seal may well last several years...or it may go bad again in 1000 miles. Hard to say without seeing a particular shaft. I have seen pits filled with metal-filled JB-weld, after sandblasting to clean the pits for good adhesion; and seen seals on those shafts last for another decade. On a lot of old heavy-equipment models, you simply can't GET a new gear....you HAVE to rebuild the old one....so we improvise and innovate and try to make it "like new" again.

Internal to the gear, there are "ring seals" which are usually Teflon. If the truck suddenly starts steering harder to one side than the other; the problem is usually one of those internal ring-seals.

One must have a very clean work-area to successfully overhaul a steering-gear. Think of it as a hydraulic component; because it is. Very sensitive to grit, lint, etc....just like an injector.

There are -2- adjustments for "play" in the typical steering-gear.

One is the obvious external one, but this is just the end-play adjustment.

The other is internal, and is the more important of the two.

This is the actual "gear-lash" adjustment. On some gears, this adjustment can be set without taking the gear apart. The output shaft bushing is mounted in an eccentric piece; which is rotated to move the sector gear in or out in relation to the rack.

If the external "end play" adjustment doesn't take the steering-wheel slop out; then one must tackle the gear-lash adjustment. When both are 'right', the truck will steer like new again.

I don't know the particulars for these Ford gears; as I've not had a problem on either truck yet; but when it does happen, I plan on rebuilding the gear myself. No more false "rebuilts" for me...

[Mr_Roboto]

Is the steering gear box just a small leak? Try using some power steering or ATF stop leak in the unit. I'd pick up a cheap turkey baster and suck some of the old fluid out, and add the stop leak stuff. Hey, you have nothing to loose.

As far as the rag joint, the procedure is going to vary by the year of the truck. I believe how it usually works is the original rag joint is riveted in, and you have to carefully drill out the rivets, or grind off the heads, then the new one bolts in. It's been so many years since I've fooled with one I'm going more by theory than actual practice.....

If you have to take the shaft out, there's a pinch bolt at the bottom of the shaft that must come all the way out, as it engages a slot in the steering gearbox input shaft. As far as the top, I think you might have to pull the whole column from the interior to get it out, but I'm not certain.

BTW, are you sure it's the rag joint bad and not a U-joint? Rag joints don't so much wear out as just come apart from dry rot. So if it's bad, it should be glaringly obvious.

[R0oster06]

there is alot of play in the wheel and there is a little play that is in the u joint but not very much thats next. that steering rod is a 2 piece part one slides into the other. the end going into the steering box has some play but it seems like the rods have play in each other.



-Jeremy Roooster! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Mr_Roboto]

Ouch. You may want to check the aftermarket and Ford to see if there is a replacement shaft is available.

[R0oster06]

not a happy man now!




-Jeremy Roooster! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[nosliw]

replacing those seals is a PITA. you have to lay directly underneath the box to see what you're doing, and you'll get fluid all over yourself in the process. Get a good pick set, because sometimes the seals won't "blow" out as suggested. i'm on my third gearbox on my Wrangler in 1 year. Given that it's abused, the first box I replaced the seals in three times. The second one something stripped in it, and the third one blew the seals out again, and I replaced it with a boneyard unit that is leaking again.

For a GOOD replacement box. And I'm talking GOOD STUFF, Contact Tom Allen at www.pscpowersteer.com and tell him Conn Wilson from MIG Offroad sent ya. Tom's a super cool guy, is usually super busy, but it always very helpful and offers an excellent service. I think he sells the reman box for $300, but if you want to order it from me, I can get you a little bit of a better price, not much. Tom is THE power steering guy to talk to. He's #1 in the offroad industry right now and used to own part of AGR. Since his non-compete agreement expired, he started doing steering again.

[R0oster06]

ill just stick with the seal dont have 300 smakers lyin around for a box that is perfectly fine.


-Jeremy Roooster!