Slow cold start in the Morning - Today 3 cranks

[SR71BLACKBIRD]

I have a 1991 E350 7.3 IDI and last month new glow plugs changed by Mechanic in Kirkland -what a rip off $780 - Champions, diagnostics and Motec flush to fuel lines. It starts okay if warm but on mornings in the 45-55, the wait to start last about 8 secs and clicking can be heard afterwards and it takes a 2 cranks to get it started even with it floored halfway or full and lots of white smoke when catches.

The Cranks seem a bit slow but have checked the batteries and seem okay.

It has 150,000 miles on it and original starter - how do I know if I need a new starter.

I don't want to bring it back to that mechanic as he doesn't seem to know what he is doing - even installed my aircleaner wrong and made a racket.

Any comments would be helpful

thanks

Scott

[tim94f250]

To test your starter, you will need to do an amperage draw test. Unless you have the amp draw meter, you'll have to take it to a mechanic. But, that alone may cost you as much as a starter. 150K miles on a diesel starter is outliving it's expected lifespan. How were your batteries tested? How old are they? You do need your starter and batteries to be tip-top as the weather turns cold. Tim

By the way, what do you mean by three cranks? Three revolutions of the engine, or crank for 15 seconds, try again and again?

[SR71BLACKBIRD]

Thanks for the reply. I mean first try about 10 sec, second try about 6 secs and 3 try 2 secs and catches and fires up and white smoke - but it is a slow crank until fires up . I have had this 1 ton Van since 1991 New and its great as it is used for light duty mainly like a family car but I know things will have to be replaced soon - the controller was replaced about 2 years ago and they always seem to go every 2 to 3 years - think I have gone through about 3 controllers.

How does one test a controller also.

Is it easy to replace the starter and what is the best one to get? - I have can do bolt on and off stuff.

Thanks a lot

Scott

[aaklingler]

Can you try checking your glow plugs. Use a test light, put one end on the positive terminal of a battery, pull the connectors off the glow plugs and put the other end of the test light on the tip of the glow plug. If it lights the glow plug is good if it doesn't light its no good. If you can pull your starter take it to an auto parts store like auto zone and get them to test it. Also get them to individually test your battery.

[CompuDoc]

Wrong brand of glow plugs were installed. You would be better off with the Motorcraft/Berus. Any tohers tend to swell and burn out quickly. When they do swell there almost impossible to get out and if the tip breaks off then the head will have to be removed. It is a lot harder to remove the heads in a van than in a pickup.

[BuilderBob]

Do the starter, very easy, $130 Autozone, lifetime warranty.

Do you expect it to last forever?
How old is the starter?
Has the starter been abused? Sounds like it from you description!

Buy 2 batteries $48 each, that a $100, plus the starter, thats $250.

[Birken Vogt]

First off, once you start to crank don't stop. Every revolution of the engine gets the cylinders a little warmer and hence closer to lighting off. If one or two start firing don't stop cranking either, keep the starter engaged until it runs on its own. And if you have any doubt about its ability to start then always crank with the fuel pedal full down. (You may want to stop cranking if it becomes evident it will not start at all just to save your starter/batteries but if it starts like you describe then keeping it cranking the whole time will work too.) When you stop cranking that heat that you had built up in the cylinders goes off into the water jacket and you have to start all over.

Rather than getting a cheap POS starter with a lifetime warranty that you are going to need over and over again, get it rebuilt by a competent local shop so that it will work right the first time.

Birken

[SR71BLACKBIRD]

If the Champions Plugs installed are only 2 months old and I try to take them off and install the Motorcraft Beru - will the tips come off? I am very worried about that - Why would the tips come off?

Thanks

[exekiel69]

they swell carbon builds up on the tip of the gp and when you try to remove it it'll break and big dudu [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]. I had champions for more than a year and they never build up any on the tip, any way, I replaced them for the ones everybody likes beru/ motorcraft (zd-9). Even if the tip breaks there is still things you can do to remove it without removing the heads (ziggster) but lets not get that far, replace them and live with no pressure heart atacks are more expensive than stock glow plugs. You have to replace that starter most likely is due and you may find it is much cheaper to ask here before you buy something for your truck, there is allways somebody to help around here [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img].

[SR71BLACKBIRD]

Thanks this is a great site. I just ordered the Beru ZD9s from Autozone online at 9.99 each per everyone's recommendations - everywhere else ie the dealer or should I say the stealer's is 24.99 each for the motorcrafts and they said they would give me a deal at 18.99!!

The Champions are only 2 months old so I don't think they will break right when I take them off right? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Will a socket like a spark plug socket get them off or do you need special tools.

Any recommendations on the Starters would be helpful.

Thanks again. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif[/img]

Scott

[Birken Vogt]

I can't tell you on the socket....I have this socket that was made for carburetor repair many years ago and fits glow plugs just perfectly.

I have never broke one but what I do is hook it up to the ratchet handle and back it off 1/8 or so (tapered seat so it doens't take much to be finger loose) then I remove the rachet handle and use a screwdriver handle to back them out ever so gently. If I encounter resistance I turn it back in then back and forth hopefully knocking off any crust that may have developed.

Birken

[tim94f250]

[ QUOTE ]

Thanks this is a great site. I just ordered the Beru ZD9s from Autozone online at 9.99 each per everyone's recommendations - everywhere else ie the dealer or should I say the stealer's is 24.99 each for the motorcrafts and they said they would give me a deal at 18.99!!


[/ QUOTE ]

MWFI sells the ZD9s for $7.50 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] Sorry I didn't mention it sooner

[BuilderBob]

[ QUOTE ]
The Champions are only 2 months old so I don't think they will break right when I take them off right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that you have been led astray.
Buying off brands does not guaranty broken tips.
The off brands have been known to break, but this is rare, yes it does happen, but to repeat, it is rare.

Birken may have a good source for starter re-builds, but for the rest of us, Autozone may be just the ticket, at $130. I have been happy!

Get your 1/4" drive and all the accessories, to remove the GP's, do a good job of cleaning before removal. Use a piece of string to wrap around the connector wires, this will help you get a good purchase!

[lww]

Before you jump onto the "new parts" band wagon, you might consider your batteries as well. Load testing can be deceptive, pry out the vent caps and check the SG.
I didn't notice when you had last changed them, but on my truck I find I've had to replace them between two and three years of age from 1990 till now. Others here will probably point out better life, but its been my experience. Plus, due to the high current draw of the glow plugs, a failing battery symptom I've found is that with proper Beru's the engine will crank slightly slower, but the glow plugs will not heat as intended, hence the extended crank cycles and exagerated white smoke shows on ignition. My use of the starting system might be classified "average", but with my original starter @ 325,000km I'm not even slightly worried about replacing it yet.
The "Death Watch Beetle of Metal Fatigue" will probably kill my body work before the starter goes.

[aaklingler]

Why exactly is the load test deceptive???