waste motor oil - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
7.3L IDI Diesels (Not Power Strokes) Technical discussion of topics related to vehicles powered by the 7.3 Liter In-Direct Injection Navistar engines.

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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-16-2010, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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waste motor oil

I'm in the market for a diesel truck that has an injection pump that can handle waste motor oil.

I plan to filter it down to get the metal/dirt out using an engine filter set up off the holding tank. I may even get into using a centrifuge eventually do deal with the soot...

I had a 97 cummins that ran fine with the stuff. I plan to mix it about 50/50 with deisel.

How are the IP's on the IDI's? Finicky, or will they eat anything?
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-16-2010, 09:42 PM
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I've had my share of troubles with waste oils, both veg and motor oil. After ruining a crappy rebuild pump I took it apart and found that mainly the transfer pump was worn pretty badly. I also went through two Holley red pumps that I was using for lift pumps, one burned up the motor and the other was worn and the motor got weak. I switched to a Hummer electric lift pump and no issues so far. What I found was particulate in my finished fuel. I ran it through sieves to check particle size as well as looked at it under a scope, I had particles as big as 8-10 microns. This lead me to take a closer look at my filtration setup which consists mainly of string wound filters 20, 5, and 1 micron. What I learned there was oil was pushing past the filters by going around the ends. I diecut felt to solve that problem. Next I got a large filter housing for a semi truck with replaceable elements and use that as the last stage of my filtration. Now my fuel has nothing larger than 1 micron and the amount of particulate is minimal. I expect this to solve the problem. As far as actually running the fuels I blend with D2 according to the weather/season running about 50/50 WMO/D2 in winter. The truck starts great and runs great, plenty of power. I think a centrifuge would be a huge benefit and plan to build one this winter. I found no signs of corrosion or other damage in my old pump. At the end of the day I prefer WMO to WVO. Storing and working with WVO is a mess and it spoils, causes mold to grow if not cleaned up, etc. WMO is just messy but easily cleaned up. I use the spent filters as fire starters for my burn barrel out back.

So to answer your question I think the IDI will handle WMO just fine IF you filter, filter, filter some more, check the quality of your filtration, filter again, and then filter again LOL. In other words just get the particulate out of it. Also I built a cold upflow processor to separate particulate and any potential water. This works pretty well. I added 5 speaker magnets to the under side of the drum which I have on a stand to grab any ferrous material. I have a bottom drain to clean it out periodically. My waste oil now is 100% used Rotella T 15/40 from a trucking company, they change it so often it's really clean and has zero water in it.

1986 F350 Crew Cab 4wd DRW conversion. 1993 7.3 IDI, 5spd Sterling 10.25 4.10 rear, kingpin D60 4.10 front, 12" HD clutch. A Banks waste gated turbo. Midwest rebuilt IP turned up. AC Delco 6.5 GM 12V GP's, working great. Running W80-W85 high performance zero-gel black diesel! 4wd and dually conversion is done. Washer mod on the D60 kingpins eliminated the death wobble. Custom 10" C-channel front bumper with military D-rings front and rear. Pintle hitch, receiver hitch, and goose neck hitch. 7800lbs full of fuel....
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-16-2010, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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hey, excellent post...great info.
thx a lot.
I'll look into the big truck filters...and I'll also look into a local trucking company for oil

I dont know if you have some pictures of your set up on photobucket or some such...if you do I'd love to see them

I know some of the places I get wmo from have coolant and other things in the oil...
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 12:21 AM
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It's kinda rigged together right now but I got the plumbing and such to neaten it all up which might happen this weekend. I'll try to take some pictures for you.

BTW there is a separate area on this forum for alternative fuels where these questions should be asked. I replied here rather than direct you there because you asked specifically about the IDI engines. If you want more info on filtering, collecting, and usage I suggest you check that part of the forum. There was a great thread recently about WMO.

1986 F350 Crew Cab 4wd DRW conversion. 1993 7.3 IDI, 5spd Sterling 10.25 4.10 rear, kingpin D60 4.10 front, 12" HD clutch. A Banks waste gated turbo. Midwest rebuilt IP turned up. AC Delco 6.5 GM 12V GP's, working great. Running W80-W85 high performance zero-gel black diesel! 4wd and dually conversion is done. Washer mod on the D60 kingpins eliminated the death wobble. Custom 10" C-channel front bumper with military D-rings front and rear. Pintle hitch, receiver hitch, and goose neck hitch. 7800lbs full of fuel....
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 01:57 AM
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the big issue with using waste motor oil is the bad bad air pollution. Ontario just passed a provincial law to ban burning waste oil in oil furnaces. It pollutes the air big-time. I'd assume if they knew ppl were burning it in their vehicles, they'd ban that too...

Just cuz it's cheap or free is the reason ppl do it. Pouring used oil into the river is a cheap way to get rid of it too, but most of us stopped doing that decades ago...

At least wvo burns cleaner than diesel, and isn't going to get banned for killing anyone...
I don't think wmo is a responsible fuel choice. In fact I'd go as far as to say it shouldn't even be a fuel "choice" at all.

'91 F-250 7.3idi XLT Lariat Supercab
Non-Turbo, Bone Stock
E4OD 4x2 4.10 non-posi
6 digit odometer
122,000 miles (197,000km)
still Minty Fresh

Sold my old 90 reg cab @340,000 miles (550,000km)
Still running I'm sure...
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 07:20 AM
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if you take your WMO to be recycled it's getting burned anyway. I worked for a narrow-gauge railroad in Felton, CA for a while and they specifically run their steam engines on recycled motor oil. I doubt they're filtering as fine as we are, so they're going to be emitting more heavy metals.

1992 F250 XLT 4x4 Super Cab 7.3 IDI E40D 3.55 ATS 088 4"R.C 360k
1982 MBZ 300SD W126 California model w/Sunroof, no EGR
1997 Audi A8 Quattro 225k Warm/Cold packages
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by lexxxel View Post
the big issue with using waste motor oil is the bad bad air pollution. Ontario just passed a provincial law to ban burning waste oil in oil furnaces. It pollutes the air big-time. I'd assume if they knew ppl were burning it in their vehicles, they'd ban that too...

Just cuz it's cheap or free is the reason ppl do it. Pouring used oil into the river is a cheap way to get rid of it too, but most of us stopped doing that decades ago...

At least wvo burns cleaner than diesel, and isn't going to get banned for killing anyone...
I don't think wmo is a responsible fuel choice. In fact I'd go as far as to say it shouldn't even be a fuel "choice" at all.
IF you do a search in the alternative fuels section you'll find a thread on this. The concensus being that it's no worse than diesel. In fact one of the posters is a member of the Green Party and while he clearly wishes we would use WVO he stated that as far as the Party is concerned burning WMO in a diesel engine is the same as burning D2 diesel.

It comes down to this: WMO is almost always burned somewhere, it can be used as bunker oil for ships and large stationary generators all the way down to burners used to heat asphalt. Burning in an engine tends to be a cleaner burn than a straight open flame.

Further proof of this? I recently had my 6.9 emissions tested. It's a crude test for a truck that old testing for particulate in the exhaust, with a 50/50 blend my truck was too low to register so I got a score of 0%, the best you can get.

It's been many years but I also recall that chain saw bar oil was essentially recycled oil, talk about throwing it in the river. I use WVO on my saws and it works fine plus no ground contamination.

1986 F350 Crew Cab 4wd DRW conversion. 1993 7.3 IDI, 5spd Sterling 10.25 4.10 rear, kingpin D60 4.10 front, 12" HD clutch. A Banks waste gated turbo. Midwest rebuilt IP turned up. AC Delco 6.5 GM 12V GP's, working great. Running W80-W85 high performance zero-gel black diesel! 4wd and dually conversion is done. Washer mod on the D60 kingpins eliminated the death wobble. Custom 10" C-channel front bumper with military D-rings front and rear. Pintle hitch, receiver hitch, and goose neck hitch. 7800lbs full of fuel....
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lexxxel View Post
the big issue with using waste motor oil is the bad bad air pollution. Ontario just passed a provincial law to ban burning waste oil in oil furnaces. It pollutes the air big-time. I'd assume if they knew ppl were burning it in their vehicles, they'd ban that too...

Just cuz it's cheap or free is the reason ppl do it. Pouring used oil into the river is a cheap way to get rid of it too, but most of us stopped doing that decades ago...

At least wvo burns cleaner than diesel, and isn't going to get banned for killing anyone...
I don't think wmo is a responsible fuel choice. In fact I'd go as far as to say it shouldn't even be a fuel "choice" at all.

you are absolutely correct.
However, this is what I plan to do.
I plan to get a system of wmo retrieval, storage, cleaning/filtering, etc set up in my backyard. I then plan to make certain that whatever truck I purchase operates properly with wmo.

Then, I plan to just let it sit.

See, I'm one of those survivalists you here about who is preparing for the end of the world as we know it.
I want to have a vehicle that will run on wmo, oil straight out of the ground, etc. for when the pumps stop working.

this is an emergency only dealeo
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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It's kinda rigged together right now but I got the plumbing and such to neaten it all up which might happen this weekend. I'll try to take some pictures for you.

BTW there is a separate area on this forum for alternative fuels where these questions should be asked. I replied here rather than direct you there because you asked specifically about the IDI engines. If you want more info on filtering, collecting, and usage I suggest you check that part of the forum. There was a great thread recently about WMO.

thanks, I will look around in the alternative fuels section
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 06:45 PM
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do it! it works fine don't let anyone tell you otherwise! when all the mechanics and gear heads i know tell me how bad it is for the engine, and ip I just listen intently shake my head in agreement and then say by the way what are you doin with your old oil.

1990 F-350 7.3 automatic overdrive
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 06:59 PM
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LOL! If you believe the world as we know it is gonna end (which it may if the Obamanistas have their way) then why worry about pollution?

I do like the fact that these trucks make great BOV's. I can't wait to add 4wd to mine. I'm not necessarily worried the world is gonna end but I don't like the way things are going either. I'm also seriously considering using one of these engines for a genset. Two reasons for that. First I don't have 3 phase here at home so my machine tools are set up at work. I'd need a really large phase converter to run my big 15hp lathe. Second I love the idea of going off-grid using WVO to power and heat my house. I have two garages and one is in a hillside attached to my house, I could easily hollow out a "cave" to put the genset in to keep the noise to a minimum. I know a few guys who have done this with VW motors from a machining forum. 3 phase power on demand or power your house either full or part time depending on the fuel supply. Still others are using waste oils to heat homes and/or shops. I love the ideal of isolating myself from energy price fluctations. Back a few years ago when prices spiked I was running 90% waste oil blends in my van, 10 bucks worth of D2 a week to get back and forth to work was great! I'm sitting on 300 gallons of processed WVO and 200 gallons of processed WMO right now since I'm not ready to run it in the new truck. Well I'm running the WMO but not the WVO just yet.

1986 F350 Crew Cab 4wd DRW conversion. 1993 7.3 IDI, 5spd Sterling 10.25 4.10 rear, kingpin D60 4.10 front, 12" HD clutch. A Banks waste gated turbo. Midwest rebuilt IP turned up. AC Delco 6.5 GM 12V GP's, working great. Running W80-W85 high performance zero-gel black diesel! 4wd and dually conversion is done. Washer mod on the D60 kingpins eliminated the death wobble. Custom 10" C-channel front bumper with military D-rings front and rear. Pintle hitch, receiver hitch, and goose neck hitch. 7800lbs full of fuel....
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 07:19 PM
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do it! it works fine don't let anyone tell you otherwise! when all the mechanics and gear heads i know tell me how bad it is for the engine, and ip I just listen intently shake my head in agreement and then say by the way what are you doin with your old oil.

Besides that when I figure up the cost of an IP (about $450) vs. what I save in fuel per year the math is WAY on the side of waste oils. Even at only 14k per year and getting 20mpg I'm saving more than $1500 per year (I average a 75% blend)

1986 F350 Crew Cab 4wd DRW conversion. 1993 7.3 IDI, 5spd Sterling 10.25 4.10 rear, kingpin D60 4.10 front, 12" HD clutch. A Banks waste gated turbo. Midwest rebuilt IP turned up. AC Delco 6.5 GM 12V GP's, working great. Running W80-W85 high performance zero-gel black diesel! 4wd and dually conversion is done. Washer mod on the D60 kingpins eliminated the death wobble. Custom 10" C-channel front bumper with military D-rings front and rear. Pintle hitch, receiver hitch, and goose neck hitch. 7800lbs full of fuel....
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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I also dont really expect the SHTF either..but I realize if the govt. continues along this path, there are going to, at the very least, be some really hard times ahead...

I live my life as I always have, and enjoy every minute of it...but at the same time, I'm taking some measures to prepare for the worst

The great thing is, most of my prep will end up saving me money in the long run anyways
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 08:34 PM
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You sound like a fellow Beck viewer. Either that or smart enough to know "plan for the worst and hope for the best".

I'm trying to get my family on the same path my grandfather's family was on in the 40's and 50's. Learn to fix what is broken, make things including food from scratch, save money and stash some cash, stock up for emergencies, take good care of what we have, etc. I am I suppose "anti-throwaway society" at heart. Remember dad pounding used nails flat on the garage floor when I was a kid, a lesson learned from grandpa, a penny saved is a penny earned. I also learned how to fix and build things from them so waste oil processing was pretty easy for me to figure out once I got the basics down. In fact if I had paid better attention to the flow rate of my cartridge filters and pumped more slowly I don't think I would have ever had any troubles with running WMO. I was using the right size filters, just pushing stuff past them with too much pump speed.

1986 F350 Crew Cab 4wd DRW conversion. 1993 7.3 IDI, 5spd Sterling 10.25 4.10 rear, kingpin D60 4.10 front, 12" HD clutch. A Banks waste gated turbo. Midwest rebuilt IP turned up. AC Delco 6.5 GM 12V GP's, working great. Running W80-W85 high performance zero-gel black diesel! 4wd and dually conversion is done. Washer mod on the D60 kingpins eliminated the death wobble. Custom 10" C-channel front bumper with military D-rings front and rear. Pintle hitch, receiver hitch, and goose neck hitch. 7800lbs full of fuel....
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 08:41 PM
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I'm also seriously considering using one of these engines for a genset.
A 7.3 engine can easily make 100 kW. Talk about overkill for a single family home, or even a farm. Unless you're planning to supply the whole neighborhood, you'd be better off with something much smaller. I have a 15 kW single phase generator set that will carry my 2000 SF air conditioned house, my 960 SF air conditioned shop/office, plus run a 2HP dust collector, a 3HP table saw or jointer, and my 5HP air compressor, all simultaneously. It's powered by a 4 cylinder Kubota diesel that uses less than 1.5 gph at full rated load.

'89 F250 2WD XLT Lariat Supercab,
7.3 IDI, C6, 10.25" 3:55, dump bed.

Mods: Gear Vendors overdrive, ATS 085/088
"Frankenturbo", boost and EGT gauges in pod,
K&N air filter, cold air intake, filter minder, rear
work lights, 'monback beeper, pintle+ball hitch,
brake controller, CB.

Wish list: 130 amp G3 alternator, front hitch,
new hood, fresh paint.
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